this post was submitted on 12 Aug 2023
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It's Sunday, I do research Monday to Friday.
Are you aware of how immature you are? Because it is staggering, though somewhat entertaining. Like talking to an uneducated pre-teen.
And no, it's not just a few weeks, it was never going to be just a few weeks. China went into hardcore, seal people in their condos lockdown for months, and covid didn't go away.
Covid can remain active in apartments and condo buildings for months, spreading between units through ventilation.
There was a nursing home near me that had full lockdown between floors of the building, no one interacted with anyone from different floors, yet covid managed to spread between the floors, because it's airborne.
Hell, I did hardcore lockdown for 4 months, didn't see anyone other than my girlfriend I live with. Covid managed to survive through that, and keep spreading.
Lockdowns do not work to eliminate covid, they can only slow it down, but covid was always here to stay.
We never did a lockdown. No one did.
People kept getting haircuts and spreading plague on purpose (once they learned what populations bore the brunt of deaths).
You and your girlfriend sending a doordasher to a grocery store where people refuse to mask is not "a hardcore lockdown".
We absolutely could have stopped this, people like you just didn't want it stopped and now (as you currently are) are back-justifying that there was nothing we could have done anyway to justify "let 'er rip" thinking.
My city did the longest lockdown in the world, and it was a proper lockdown. No travel, no going out except for groceries and medication, all industries shut down.
How exactly do you expect people to eat during your magical full-lockdown?
And once again, covid spreads through the air, which means it can move from condo unit to condo unit and spread, even in a full weld the doors shut lockdown. Unless you want to cut off people's air and have them all suffocate I guess.
Seriously, how does your lockdown actually work, logistically? To allow people to actually survive it, while also doing it for long enough to actually eliminate covid, which would take several months due to inter-unit spread.
Are we discussing a city-wide pandemic, or a global one? Remind me.
As I mentioned in another reply food deliveries, just not by private individuals forced to wade through anti-masker air.
HVAC technology exists, and I also advocate all buildings air systems be upgraded (at gun point, by people in hazmat suits receiving hazard pay).
The technology and resources exist to fight this problem, just not the political will.
So you admit it is theoretically possible.
Given my province city didn't allow people in, and city stayed lockdown for 4 months, yet local covid kept on chugging along, shows that 2 weeks is not enough even if done globally.
So people are out delivering food? That means people are out growing food, transporting food, preparing food, etc... That's a lot of people, and that's just in the food industry.
Where are we going to get all those hazmat suits? We didn't have all that many pre-pandemic, so we need to make them to have enough for everyone who needs to go out. So we now have lots of people in factories making hazmat suits.
Also who is training people on the proper use of hazmat suits? Improperly used hazmats don't work, so people need to be trained and periodically inspected on their proper use.
Who is building the HVACs? Who is mining the resources required to go into making them? Who is smelting and preparing those resources? Who is transporting those resources? Seems like a lot of people need to be working to make this happen.
And again you have millions of gun totting hazmat wearing quarantine police running around. Are they acting perfectly, and not asymptomatically spreading it when they get lazy?
All of this would take years to implement, retorfitting every single building with new HVAC systems would take years. Are you prepared to full lockdown for literal years?
And again, you still have to kill a very large chunk of the wild animal and pet population as well. Good luck finding and hunting down billions of deer and cats among other animals.
So no, it isn't in any way theoretically possible.
You are just jumping through hoops to justify the sunk cost of all the people we intentionally made die as a society, huh?
No, you just don't understand what it would take to actually eliminate a disease.
Please address my points, and how you would actually manage them, with the logistics of our actual world, not some fancy fantasy land you live in with unlimited resources and the ability to somehow do difficult installation labour on literally billions of homes at once.
I understand you would rather millions die and orders more be permanently disabled than do something about it (which we could have)
We have close enough for jazz in this scenario if you factor out profit.
Of course people who benefit from us not factoring that out twist themselves and fact around to explain why so many people had to be made to die during this plague.
Why are you not addressing my points?
Take out profit completely, and just address these with no need to explain profit.
Where are the resources to make the HVAC systems coming from?
Who is making the HVAC systems?
Who is installing the HVAC systems?
In literally billions of homes, who is doing all this?
Who is making the hazmat suits?
Who is training people on and distributing the hazmat suits?
You need hundreds of millions of hazmat suits in order to have armed guards and food delivery people in every town and city in the world.
What time frame will all this take to implement?
Please, logistically how are you going to achieve your vision of a lockdown that would actually work to end covid, no money required?
Because right now, your ideas are impossible and could not work.
Seems pointless when you ignore mine. Kind of like you seem to ignore all the ongoing death.
You just want to stay convinced all the ongoing death is a good thing and I don't see why I should put effort into speaking with someone who doesn't even read links.
I'll keep smacking you down, but you aren't actually engaging so I won't be putting as much effort into it any more.
I am engaging, I took your points and asked you to clarify things about them. You're the one not engaging.
Please explain how your HVAC system upgrade is going to be implemented, and using what resources? Just a start, explain that part of your plan.
You jumped into "we could have handled this better" complaining about how it is impossible to control disease.
When told "Regardless if we can wipe it out" (which we can) "we'd have been better off with mandatory vaccinations and quarantine than with what we did do" you stuck on if it is theoretically possible to wipe out airborne disease (which, again, it is).
When you slipped up and admitted we yes absolutely could have wiped this out in as little as a few months ( as you and I could be hashing this out over a beer right now) you switched over to "We don't have enoug hhazmat suits!"
as if
I give very simple answers ("National Guard") and you either move to different points or misunderstand how manufacturing works.
You aren't interested in this debate, you just have to justify to yourself all the death you've been ok with.
..all while ignoring your schoolwork.
I have to tell you, if I was your professor and you were in my "Shut The Fuck Up" class, I'd have long since failed you.
You'll never get your doctorate at this rate.
This started because you said if we had just locked down for two weeks we wouldn't be in this mess, heavily implying we could have eliminated covid. No explanation of how that would have worked.
How, with proper details and logistical support? How do we actually wipe it out, because so far I've disproven what you've said because it's literally impossible at the scale needed to actually eliminate a disease.
Which diseases have we managed to wipe out?
And of course it's theoretically possible to eliminate disease, kill everyone and you no longer have disease. My point is it's not realistically possible in any way to eliminate an airborne disease.
Not what I said, I said it would take several months for spread to stop in a closed locked down condo building. You still have wild vectors to deal with, and spread from all your guards.
I didn't say that, I asked you to tell me who is making them? And how are you preventing covid spread where they are being made? Where are you getting the materials to make them, and who is getting those materials to the factories? And again, how are you stopping spread in this system?
Simple because you fail to even consider any of the logistics behind it. Where are all the national guardsmen going to get their hazmat suits? How are you going to keep them perfectly in line? How are you going to deal with asymptomatic cases amongst them?
No, that's you. You seem to think hazmat suits and HVAC systems just magically appear out of nowhere. Explain to me, how in a few weeks of a new pandemic you're going to get billions of these things manufactured and installed?
I am, you have yet to actually expand on the actual logistics of your imaginary full lockdown. Not simply, "oh the national guard will do it" but actual concrete logistics of how they will do it. Please, elaborate on how exactly this all works in your fantasy land.
And I already have my doctorate, in bioanalytical chemistry, as I told you. What's your educational background?
...because you jumped into my notifications defending mass death
You've been being a jackass this entire time based on what you assumed I meant?
Christ, dude.
Because you said something stupid and incorrect. Don't want people in your notifications, don't post on social media.
You made a false statement. Two weeks would not have stopped us being in "this mess"
And in order to actually eliminate covid and get rid of "this mess," you would need an incredible amount of mass death, killing anyone and anything that might have it in order to stop it.
I'm not defending mass death, I'm defending reality.
You keep saying it's easy to eliminate an airborne illness, so why haven't we ever managed to do it?
I want you to expand on the logistics of what you've suggested. How do we actually eliminate a disease like covid and get out of "this mess"? With actual logistics, not just hand wavy "national guard..." What is actually needed, and how do we do it? It's apparently easy according to you, just two weeks and it's done. So how do we do it?
I didn't even read what you typed here.
Guessing it's more of you going on about how things are "impossible" when really they're just things capitalists don't want to do.
You are tiring.
Explain the logistics of your solution. How could we have stopped covid, with real world logistics?
By "real world" do you mean capitalist?
Are you just gonna complain, ignore, deflect when the answer involves seizing private property?
I also question how deep you demand I pen this logistical plan you aren't going to read any more than I read your last post.
Not doing it, but like do you expect me to schedule each truck driver's shift?
Because Terry isn't sure when his baby's due and I still need to inquire about the hazmat certification Ron went out for Thursday last.
No, by real world I mean one in which billions of humans and trillions of animals live, and which has limited resources that still require labour to extract and process. That real world.
Assume pure socialism or communism in every country for your plan for all I care, the issue isn't the economic system.
I've been reading your posts, and have pointed out flaws and holes in your plan you have failed to patch. Instead you just deflect, and change the subject or move the goalposts.
And you still haven't even gone into any detail. You want a full lockdown enforced by hazmat suite wearing national guardsmen. Okay, who is making the suits, because they won;t just magically appear. How do you keep the people making the suits from spreading covid?
Covid spreads between condo and apartment units through ventilation. you suggest HVAC upgrades installed by gun totting hazmat suit wearing guards. Where are the HVAC systems coming from? We don't just have billions lying around. Where are the technicians coming from? We need a lot of HVAC technicians to do the installations in the billions of homes worldwide.
I'm not asking for a day to day schedule, just some simple logistics for how you plan on making and distributing billions of pieces of specialized equipment, all while maintaining a tight lockdown.
I'm gonna have to say D-.
You can't even defend your side of the debate. I'm asking you to explain the simplest logistics of what you suggest, and you won't even try. When will you understand that means your argument is wrong?
This isn't a debate.
This is you being an asshole and trying to justify the mass death that resulted from the global covid response as impossible to avoid when it was very possible to avoid.
You should be less worried about replying to me and more worried about earning your Shut The Fuck Up degree.
You got a D- on your last assignment, recall?
Sure, because you refuse to engage.
I gave you reasons why a 2 week hard lockdown wouldn't have worked to solve covid. You gave a new scenario where we needed a longer lockdown and rigorous testing. I pointed out flaws in that plan, and you then started insulting me instead of actually addressing those flaws.
Why won't you answer the logistics questions of how your plan to lockdown the whole world and test every person and animal on it at gunpoint would work?
Why should I engage a murderous asshole who came into my notification lying and ignores or willfully misunderstands every point I make?
Go work on your degree.