this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2023
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No, fascists (which TERFs are) should not be allowed to fester here.
One is in a cult and engages in fascism apologia, another is a christian dominionist.
About who you'd expect.
This article is really not convincing.
like, fuck terfs, fuck the anti-trans movement, but the connection between the anti-trans movement and fascism is framed in this suuuuper abstract way that no meaningful definition of fascism would allow. It kind of just makes fascism sound like "statism."
There are plenty of terfs (again, fuck terfs) who are not calling for government action, but trying to exclude trans women from feminist spaces on non-governmental levels, arguing for a limiting social or academic definition of feminism or of a woman and holding exclusionary events. Fascism is an incorrect label for that behavior.
Furthermore, to call terfs fascists implies that they are generally for other things fascists are for, like a command economy, which I don't think is common.
And to be clear, there is an overlap between terfs and fascists, and an even bigger overlap between anti-trans people in general and fascists. We all know the Nazis fucked up a lot of good gender research, but they were never pretending to be feminists.
Nope, terfs are fascists.
... did you link to the wrong article by mistake? that article doesn't really have anything to do with fascism, except insofar as most fascists also happen to be racists.
I could link articles all day but I have better things to do than entertain (presumably) a cis guy while he plays devils advocate about the people who want my friends thrown in camps not being fascists.
that's literally the first article you linked to. Do you have a point at all? You can link to articles all day, but only two of them, and only one that argues for your point at all, which I've already addressed?
I'm not advocating for terfs or fascists, they're both villains, but to say they're the same is like saying the KKK and the muslim brotherhood are the same. Just because they're both evil and there are some common threads between their ideas doesn't mean they're the same. I think we should learn how to talk about the terrible groups out there instead of just equating all of them and dancing around our own ignorance. I'm not advocating them, I'm advocating against them as strongly as I can, and you're promoting ignorance instead of responding to the one damn point I've made.
Yeah I thought maybe you would read it this time.
I read it, and responded to it. You've been ignoring my response because you don't have an answer to it. So again. The core argument that terfs are fascists is:
Which, again:
If you have a point, then instead of linking to the same article again or linking article that isn't about fascism, please make your point.
Why are you "Well, actually..."ing fascists? Who gains there?
who gains from making up a new definition of fascism? why do you want people to be ignorant?
know thy enemy.
I'm not nitpicking here, I'm not being pedantic, your article didn't even vaguely touch on what fascism is. Maybe the underlying article did, but I'm having trouble imagining what the point is.
Does it piss you off you spend all this effort flailing about defending fascists and I still tell you (correctly) you're wrong and spend a fraction of the effort?
where the fuck do you see me defednding fascists?
does it piss you off that you don't have any response to anything I've actually said? does it piss you off to discover that this publication you like just published a point it didn't understand at all? does it piss you off to see a person argue that we should attack terfs for being terfs and fascists for being fascists and not just assume that all bad people are the same kind of bad person?
is that why you're afraid to read any of my comments?
Having no time for a jackass in a month old thread dredging up his lack of reading comprehension and pathological need to defend fascists from true accusations of being fascists is very much different than being afraid.
You are correct that I am not reading your replies at this point, nor is anyone else.
stop saying that I'm defending fascists, asshole.
you didn't read any of my replies, and you kept accusing me of shit I'm not doing, because you are, in fact, not interested in defending your bullshit. Blaming me for that is sad.
also... I just found this thread today, how did that happen?
I'll stop saying it when you stop doing it.
Why are you advocating for the KKK?
show me a place where I implied that Fascists might not be complete pieces of shit. Show me one place.
You admitted to not reading my comments, you're nothing but a troll. This is serious. Go fuck yourself.
You sure are upset about this group of fascists being fascists.
Why are you so cut up about arguing in a thread no one is reading?
I'm upset that you're promoting the Westboro Baptist Church!
I'm upset that decent people are being tricked into a stupid opinion about bad people. Just because fascists are evil and terfs are evil doesn't mean we should be making up confused bullshit about them, we should make coherent arguments and insult them for what they actually are. Making fun of terfs for being fascists is not effective because intelligent people will see that they're not fascists, and then not understand the actual issues with terfs. This is doubly problematic if your argument that terfs are fascists is as superficial and weak as the Them article you posted. You'll alienate people that absolutely want to be on our side.
Why are you so cut up about arguing in a thread you're not reading?
Are you still typing?
Still caught up on a group of fascists needing you to tell people they aren't fascists, huh?
How's that working out for you?
I'll be here for as long as you keep defending Tucker Carlson.
I'm not doing this for the fascists. The fascists love it when people get confused about who they are.
I'm doing this for your benefit, and for the benefit of any other decent people reading. Decent people don't like being lied to, decent people don't benefit when you tell them that cake is a type of potato, decent people don't suddenly get smarter when you tell them that Rush Limbaugh is a Scientologist. Labels have meanings and degrading those meanings is not a progressive act.
That's how you spend your cis-ass time? Defending terfs from descriptions of fascism when they're fascist?
That would seem like a bad things to do for a group who doesn't need defending.
why are you using cis as a slur? that's so weird
I am using it as a descriptor of an out group member sticking his nose in a oppressed in group's business. It is apt.
you're weird
I've been accurately called worse.
Why
You're asking me to provide motivation for others' actions—calling me things—which I cannot do.
Why?
I spend my cis-ass time helping progressives avoid ignorant people like you who are helping terfs and fascists recruit. I spend my cis-ass time attacking terfs and fascists.
the worst thing you can do to a terf is tell the truth. The worst thing you can do to a fascist is tell the truth. They have no defense against the truth. Their ideas are genuinely that bad.
But when you lie, they party in the streets—that's their whole recruitment model. They say "look, libtards call us fascists just because we don't believe (insert some strawman version of the lies terfs tell)," and they laugh about how many "moderate" votes you gained them in their swing states.
I hope my fellow progressives don't think your ignorance is the norm among progressives.
You sure are confident telling marginalized groups you aren't a part of how they should refer to their oppressors.
You are very smart.
Why are you using the N word?
I'm not talking to a group, I'm talking to a dumbass.
As a Jew, I feel fairly entitled to talk about fascism, and fairly entitled to be upset when people say insert group of assholes are Fascists without any understanding whatsoever of any definition of Fascism beyond "government." I do, in fact, have a stake in how you lie about my oppressors.
But it's also perfectly reasonable for me to be upset when you lie about your oppressors and try to trick trans people and allies like me into believing your lies. Why are you so strongly opposed to the truth?
You haven't even addressed the Bureau Of Fasism Forensics Analysis report? Until you do that no one has anything to say to you.
Keep trolling trans allies and drawing false equivalencies, that'll stop the terfs.
Why did you shoot JFK?
no have no idea what fascists are and just use it as a scare word to attack people you disagree with - grow up.
So you're saying Helen Joyce's claim transgender identity is a plot by Jewish billionaires is just her being a concerned citizen asking questions?
That's a strange side to be defending, friend who made their account yesterday.
I’m just pointing out that the „fascist“ label got thrown around by people like you so inflationary that it lost every meaning or sense, making you sound similar desperate as those you seek to oppose. What this does have to do with the age of my account here is beyond me, on the other hand I sense a hint of alt tech elitism that fits the picture just right.
"People like me"? You'll forgive if I don't follow.
And it has a meaning—that they are being fascists—which it maintains.
It's fascists' fault they're being fascists; not mine for correctly labeling it.
People who claim that they are right because they say so will never cease to fascinate me.
You want me to explain why transphobia is bad and should be opposed?
No.
Fuck out of here.
I'm not explaining why antisemitism is bad either.
Funny how this escalated from you thinking that the socialpolitical movement of fascism has anything to do with a subtribe of modern, post–liberal 2nd wave feminists all the way to antisemitism - something, that wasn’t even remotely on the table. if you now manage to stir „racism“ into the mix, you can call it a day.
You don't read links do you?
I'm not the one who formed the alliance you deny exists.
TERFs have always been white supremacists.
An, yes, „white supremacy“ counts as „racism“. You did well today, have cold one - bye! :)
You're leaving my notifications?
Awesome!
Please don't go defending fascism in anyone else's. 🙂
I don't think @mishmashenjoyer implied that at all. Like, not even close. On any level.