this post was submitted on 02 May 2025
36 points (87.5% liked)
Programming
20028 readers
72 users here now
Welcome to the main community in programming.dev! Feel free to post anything relating to programming here!
Cross posting is strongly encouraged in the instance. If you feel your post or another person's post makes sense in another community cross post into it.
Hope you enjoy the instance!
Rules
Rules
- Follow the programming.dev instance rules
- Keep content related to programming in some way
- If you're posting long videos try to add in some form of tldr for those who don't want to watch videos
Wormhole
Follow the wormhole through a path of communities [email protected]
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
I'm not sure how this license would foster community contributions to the codebase, assuming that was an objective. When I say "contributor" I mean both individuals as well as corporations, in the same way that both might currently contribute to the Linux kernel (GPL) today.
As written, this license grants the user a non-exclusive license for non-commercial use. But that implies that for commercial users -- like a corporation -- they'll have to negotiate a separate license, since Futo Holdings Inc would retain the copyright. So if a corporation (or nation state entity) throws enough money at Futo Holdings Inc, they can buy their way into any sort of license terms they want, and the normie user can't complain.
This is kinda like the principal-agent problem, where the userbase and individual developers now have to trust that Futo Holdings won't do something reprehensible with the copyrights, be it licensing to certain hostile countries or whatever.
Whereas in the GPL space, individual developers still own their copyright but license their code out under a compatible license. So even Linus Torvalds cannot unilaterally relicense the Linux codebase, because he would need to seek out every copyright owner for every line of code that exists, and some of those people are already dead.
I'm personally not a fan at all of forcing individual contributors from the community into signing over copyright (or major rights thereto) or other stipulations as a condition for making the codebase better, with the exception of an indemnity that the code isn't stolen or a work-product for hire. I used GPL in the comparison above, but the permissive licenses like MIT also have similar qualities.
EDIT
Thinking about it more, would corporations even want to contribute? Imagine CorpA decides to add code, having already paid for an existing commercial license from Futo Holdings. But then CorpB -- who is CorpA's arch nemesis -- pays Futo Holdings an absurd amount of money and in return gets a commercial license that's equivalent to the WTFPL. That means CorpA's contributions are available for CorpB to use, but CorpB has zero obligation to ever contribute a line of code which CorpA could later benefit from. It becomes a battle of money, and Futo Holdings sits as the kingmaker. GPL abates this partially, if CorpA is both using and distributing code. But the Source First License v1.1 has zero mitigation for this, apart from "trust me bro".
Im pretty sure the objective is not to get contributions. You talk like contributions could actually replace actual full time maintainers of the software. They cannot. If a payment of corpB is large enough to completely buy out the software, then the objective is completed in the sense that this should provide enough money to maintain the software by paying maintainers or even hiring new ones, there is no need to beg for corpo contributions then.
The objective is not to make the most community friendly licence, it is to pay the people who do the actual work.
A lot of my response was already rendered further down the thread. So I'll only comment on this part:
If this is the singular or main objective that Futo has, then the basis of OP's post is entirely dead. The title of the post is very clearly "FUTO License, an alternative to Open Sourd". But if we take your submission as fact, then there is no comparison whatsoever.
Open Source -- whether using OSI's definition or including FSF's -- has almost never focused on the financial aspect, for better or worse. It's why commercial entities like Canonical and Red Hat are so rare, because software engineers prefer spending their free time working on great things rather than doing admin.
Futo sounds like they want to be a commercial entity like Red Hat but without the limitations that Open Source or Free Software would impose on them. And they're welcome to do that, but that endeavor cannot honestly be called comparable to the mostly community-driven projects like BSD, GNU, and Linux, or commercial ventures like RHEL and whatever cloud-thingy that Canonical is selling now.
If the goal is to pay for professional talent, with revenue from B2B sales, and only non-commercial users get a free-bee, then that's just a shareware company with more steps. Futo trying to dress themselves up like Red Hat remains as disingenuous as when they tried to misinform open-source folks about what open-source is.
I'll be frank: my interest in software licensing is about finding licenses that strike a sensible balance. It's about distributing rights and obligations that are equitable and sustainable, while perpetuating software uptake and upkeep. It's a tough cookie. But I think the Source First license alienates too many potential audiences and its financial model falls apart under any game theory analysis. So I'm not keen on looking down this avenue anymore.