this post was submitted on 18 Mar 2025
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An ethics professor at Cambridge talks about teaching ethics in 2025 (lemmy.world)
submitted 1 day ago by [email protected] to c/whitepeopletwitter
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[โ€“] [email protected] 3 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

A lot of what you said here is an implication of subjectivism, but not an argument for it. Subjectivism about morality is no more an implication of an empiricist worldview than subjectivism about the shape of the Earth.

What you're suggesting here sounds a lot like the logical positivists' position on ethics. The descriptive is falsifiable, the normative is not, so it must be subjective. The problem with that view is that we can't draw neat lines between the normative and the descriptive. If I'm attempting to model the world descriptively, I'm still going to be guided by normative considerations about what constitutes a good model. Science is not purely empirical, and ethics is not purely normative. Philosophy in general is not a discrete subject, separate from science. The two are continuous.

And we've known since Plato that God doesn't play into it, one way or the other.

[โ€“] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

A lot of what you said here is an implication of subjectivism, but not an argument for it.

Of course? We're trying to understand why these students in a classroom are so strongly subjective, not convert each other.

They were confused what their students meant by subjectivism and that they don't think the students understand what they mean.

I'm putting into context why subjectivism is the defacto moral standard in an empirical society.

Subjectivism is like the null hypothesis, it's the default. If you want to claim objectivism, you have to prove this objective realm exists... but it's an unfalsifiable thing?

Subjectivism about morality is no more an implication of an empiricist worldview than subjectivism about the shape of the Earth.

I'm not sure what point you're making. What implies what doesn't really matter for truth.

I was making a point that since a lot of people are empiricists by default that implies they'd be subjectivists. That doesn't mean I was saying they're right.

What you're suggesting here sounds a lot like the logical positivists' position on ethics. The descriptive is falsifiable, the normative is not, so it must be subjective.

This isn't what I'm suggesting, it's what I'm observing. This is my theory for why society is so strongly subjectivist.

We both already agreed this isn't an argument for or against, I'm putting in context why society thinks why it does.

I've made a few personal arguments below but this was more a starting point, there's just too much criticism to preempt its better to wait and have that conversation and address it as its brought up.

The problem with that view is that we can't draw neat lines between the normative and the descriptive. If I'm attempting to model the world descriptively, I'm still going to be guided by normative considerations about what constitutes a good model. Science is not purely empirical, and ethics is not purely normative. Philosophy in general is not a discrete subject, separate from science. The two are continuous.

Can you elaborate on "Science is not purely empirical, and ethics is not purely normative."

I bring up the is-ought problem in an argument below as evidence of subjectivist. The "is" lives in the external world we collect empirical data on, the "ought" is unique to our brains and subject to our own experiences

I would like to understand what you mean before I disagree (I might not but I think i do)