this post was submitted on 31 Jul 2023
468 points (99.4% liked)
196
16744 readers
1703 users here now
Be sure to follow the rule before you head out.
Rule: You must post before you leave.
founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
3rd wave kinda.. did that on their own. Barely a few years ago there were 'feminists' shutting down MRA sessions by pulling fire alarms where it was literally a bunch of dudes talking about their problems. It's still relatively recent memory that people who called themselves feminists were some of the most unhinged human beings we had to deal with.
Yes, you can argue "those weren't actually feminists" or "they were extreme and don't represent everyone" but a lot of people still have those feminists in mind when the term comes up. It's not "men who hate women" who created this perception, it is the women who hate men.
The issue is men on youtube showing those few bad apples and declaring: "This is feminism"
You can find idiots in any movement. You can't "kick them out". Feminism isn't a club you join.
The issue is men like you not being able to think for yourself and simple believing what some dudes on youtube tell you.
Just about every critique of the feminist movement(s) gets quashed by ad hominem and accusations of sexism. Perhaps there is a need to reconsider how this movement treats men, and how much venomous rhetoric is aimed in their direction?
If you think feminism bad bc they fight against MRAs Idk what to tell you other than stop hating women. MRA's are garbage and have never given a fuck about men's issues. They're the male equivalent of terfs, using a progressive social movement as a guise for their bigotry. As someone who used to think 3rd wave feminism was cringe and bad, you really need to reexamine your views and question why you're still going to bat for MRAs of all people
Ah yeah the group of people that have the highest suicide rates don't have any problems to talk out. You're right, we should tell them to suck it up and be a man.
You're the reason I hate feminism. Please fuck off.
They were talking about MRA's and how that movement is/was very misogynistic and just a backlash to 3rd wave feminism. That movement hid behind real struggles of men to just be misogynistic and uphold patriarchy.
Men have very pressing and real struggles however you can't solve those problems by hating women.
MRAs existed before third wave feminism and only became widely known after being attacked by said wave of feminism. It absolutely did push to the top a bunch of edgy and shitty people that somehow became popular because people found comfort in someone trash talking horrible people calling themselves feminist. Said people have fallen off dramatically and are now seen as more vile than they once were because the worst of the feminist movement has essentially moved on to actually defending women against the modern day 'manosphere' which is overwhelmingly misogynistic and uses men's issues as a shield from critique rather than treating it as an important issue.
Third wave feminism was the embodiment of 'Women have very pressing and real struggles, however you can't solve those problems by hating men' and I'd wager the feelings you have towards the misogynistic manosphere are the same many of us had towards third wave feminism.
Where did I say anything close to that???? Ofc men have shit tons of problems, you'd have to be super ignorant or bigoted to deny that. MRA's don't give a shit about those problems. They just pay lip service to them as an excuse to decry feminists and often women in general bc they hate women and unknowingly contribute to the kinds of unhealthy masculinity that cause men a lot of the problems they face.
Most feminists aren't the screeching misandrist TERFs that are super loud and way too plentiful in a lot of spaces, though I'll admit I don't really call myself one anymore. Terfs kinda ruined the term for me by hijacking it as a guise for their transphobia. But most feminists want toxic masculinity to end, and for people to not have to conform to gender norms. Most feminists realize that men face a lot of issues, and those issues are societal and not inherent to having a dick