this post was submitted on 23 Feb 2025
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To be America's enemy is dangerous, but to be its ally is fatal (lemmy.ml)
submitted 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) (1 children)

Being purposely obtuse is not a rebuttal…

Seems like you made a self referential statement there. My rebuttal was very clear. There's no fundamental difference between Russian and western oligarchs having influence over Ukraine.

Just because the people of Ukraine overthrew a government that was being controlled by the benefactors of Russian capital for a government controlled by people who want to take loans from the US and Western Europe does not mean there was a “coup by the west”.

Yeah, that's not what happened. Fascist extremists backed by the west overthrew the government. Claiming that these people represent majority of Ukrainians is the height of intellectual dishonesty.

Not surprisingly you are stripping any sense of autonomy from the people of Ukraine. Could it be that the people of Ukraine were just tired of being the poorest nation in Europe despite their size, agricultural output, and mineral wealth?

Not surprisingly, you're once again making statements at odds with the basic facts of the situation.

Meaning if Ukraine had continued to be controlled by oligarchs loyal to Russia, Russia wouldn’t have had to invade. Sure.

It's wasn't, but I guess you'll just keep repeating this like baby Goebbels.

I don’t think posting the substack of an author who works for the Russian media is really enough to establish anything. The guy is clearly not a reliable narrator, and his “evidence” is hardly sufficient to validate his claims.

You could've just stopped at I don't think without having to qualify that. The substack points to plenty of sources to substantiate the argument. The fact that you ignored once again highlights that you're not arguing in good faith.

Every powerful nation in the world has lobbying groups of a similar order. Saying that they are solely responsible for regime change all over the world is just reductionist and ignores the autonomy of the people in those nations.

Nobody said they're solely responsible for regime change. That's just a straw man you made instead of engaging with the actual argument that they were responsible for this particular regime change. Try to put more effort into your trolling to make it less transparent at least.

So America is so powerful they can overthrow a nation with a ngo, but so weak they can’t capitalize on it… curious.

Except that the US is capitalizing on it and has done so since 2014. Maybe learn a bit about the subject you're attempting to debate as not to make a clown of yourself in public.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 3 days ago (1 children)

There's no fundamental difference between Russian and western oligarchs having influence over Ukraine.

That's a non sequitur from the discussion we were talking about.

Yeah, that's not what happened.

I guess it's inarguable since you said it with such conviction.....

Claiming that these people represent majority of Ukrainians is the height of intellectual dishonesty

"As for the conflict itself, over 50% sided with the protesters and volunteers. More than half of the respondents discountenanced the authorities and pro-government anti-Maidan protesters. The main adversary of the Euromaidan was Viktor Yanukovych and his closest allies, 71% of the pollees believe."

It's fairly unanimous that the protest were mainly against Viktor Yanukovych.

Not surprisingly, you're once again making statements at odds with the basic facts of the situation.

Wow, such a good argument. How can anyone compete with the sophisticated rebuttal of "not uh".

guess you'll just keep repeating this like baby Goebbels

Hmmm.... I can't refute this fact, I guess I'll just call anyone who disagrees with me a Nazi. Big brain move.

The substack points to plenty of sources to substantiate the argument.

First of all, half of the links in that substack are dead. Secondly, just because you claim a piece of evidence substanciates your argument doesn't make it true. Having a link saying 6 people from America went and observed an election, doesn't mean they were part of an overall conspiracy to overthrow a country. Especially considering the people in that country attribute the actual rebellion as a response to Yanukovych sicking the police on a peaceful protest.

I'm not attacking the "evidence" in the substack, I'm attacking the overall narrative that run counter to reality.

Nobody said they're solely responsible for regime change.

You haven't offered any other reasoning.....

to put more effort into your trolling to make it less transparent at least.

Lol, anytime anyone disagrees with you it's trolling.

US is capitalizing on it and has done so since 2014.

By taking away the wealth of the oligarchs who supposedly handed over power to the US in the first place? Sure.

Maybe learn a bit about the subject you're attempting to debate as not to make a clown of yourself in public.

Man, you really are just a broken record. What is your obsession with clowns?

Why is it that all Russian nationalist argue in the same exact way?

[–] [email protected] 2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

You should really learn what non sequitur means if you insist on using it.

I guess it’s inarguable since you said it with such conviction…

And provided you with a sourced reference detailing the situation. But hey why acknowledge that when you can just spew more bullshit?

It’s fairly unanimous that the protest were mainly against Viktor Yanukovych.

Protests by whom?

Wow, such a good argument. How can anyone compete with the sophisticated rebuttal of “not uh”.

Literally just described your side of the thread here haven't you.

Lol, anytime anyone disagrees with you it’s trolling.

Nope, just people who spew nonsense as a form of argument.

By taking away the wealth of the oligarchs who supposedly handed over power to the US in the first place? Sure.

Last I checked Blackrock owns large chunks of Ukraine now, but do go on.

Why is it that all Russian nationalist argue in the same exact way?

I could ask you why liberal trolls all have the same script too.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 3 days ago (1 children)

Lol, not even trying anymore. That's cool, projection is a helluva drug.

could ask you why liberal trolls all have the same script too.

Yes, everyone who is critical of a pretend campist is a liberal..... At least you're not even denying that you're just a Russian nationalist.

Have a good one