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switching from windows to linux, can you give some advice? (sopuli.xyz)

submitted 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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I need some advice regarding which distro to choose. I tried installing fedora workstation on my laptop as test and it seemed quite annoying to get the user interface right.

I dont mind the technical differences, in fact i'm looking forward to them as linux is more secure and better designed.

The problem i'm having is that i want the good things from windows desktop. for example; tray icons, being able to control filesystem easily with gui, shortcuts on desktop.

Every distro i have tried or seen has been really basic regarding this out of the box with very little customization options. I prefer not having to download million extensions for every little feature that might stop working at every major update or if developer doesnt feel like continuing.

I also would like to be able to easily backup customization settings so i dont have to do everything again if i need to reinstall. I like being able to easily customize everything so having a lot of settings is good thing for me.

I read somewhere about kde plasma and screenshots seemed promising and downloaded kde fedora. Haven't installed it yet but am I on the right track for what i'm looking for? Are there other even better choices? I'd like to nail this from the start so I dont have to reinstall later. I really dont want to wade through every possible distro.

Thank you all, you have been big help

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

They often have to follow special procedures, learn about the differences and it’s just a steep learning curve.

I think you overestimate how different the procedures really are, honestly, I think you'd need to give a set of situations in which this would happen and really think about how different it is. The vast majority of usecases are just open the app store to install stuff and use the browser. Most people won't run into anything that needs special procedures.

I've been giving people immutable linux for a while and this has actually been a complete non-issue, the closest thing to a problem was telling them to use rpm-ostree instead of the normal linux fedora commands, but that's only if they need to use the CLI for something, which is extremely rare on bazzite. This has only happened once and it was to install keyd.

Plus we have a few issues with Flatpaks, like themes not applying and Linux looks like it’s stuck in the early 2000s when all your desktop is in dark mode and one application will be bright white with completely different look. Or the password manager not working due to the sandboxing of the browser Flatpak…

I recommend people use bitwarden, there's a firefox extension so this is a complete non-issue for people I help.

As for the themes, most people just use the default breeze in bazzite, themes being weird has also not been something i've seen there, your information may be out of date. Maybe if they're trying out weird custom themes, sure, but again, most people just stick to the default and this is a non-issue. I consider this a feature only really necessary for advanced users.

All of those issues add up and they’re not trivial to solve. And kind of unnecessary in my opinion.

I think this might've been true a few years ago, things have progressed. The benefits of never having a linus tech tips moment where your entire desktop is destroyed because of a simple package management mistake is much more massive than you realize.

I think that’s what beginners want instead of pulling Flatpaks directly from upstream, whatever that project does behind the scenes.h

Beginners don't care where their packages come from, they want a system that's rock solid and "just works". You might want that as an advanced user, sure, but I don't think you know what being a beginner is like anymore. I encourage people who care to step out of their comfort zone, but they haven't even once since i started recommending fedora kinoite/bazzite.

I’m really not sure if I want to recommend immutable distros to beginners at this point. They’re a valid thing, but come with downsides. But I’m willing to have a closer look. I’ve yet to try most of them, including the one you mentioned.

I would've completely agreed with this a few years ago. I don't think you're up to date honestly!

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago (1 children)

Fair enough. Thanks for the nuanced perspective. I'll try it. Though I occasionally really get support requests for old printers, scanners and whatever people have around. Or they have their accustomed workflow and they don't really want to change a lot and also migrate their data to several different programs... I'd like to accomodate for that. I'll see how it is today. I think one thing won't change though and that is the big selling point of Linux having a big package repository. That just has a lot of advantages, also for the beginners. And the maintainers invest a lot of time so everything works smoothly. And it makes it stupidly easy to do a lot of things.

I mean ultimately the details don't matter. My mom doesn't need the latest Firefox or some specific operating system design. She just needs something that gets the job done and is maintainable and maybe not a hassle to operate and maintain...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago) (1 children)

Though I occasionally really get support requests for old printers, scanners and whatever people have around.

These work fine on immutable distros if they work on normal distros, for fedora atomic you can install just about anything with rpm-ostree, in these cases, i just send them a message with the command for the thing they need to install.

Or they have their accustomed workflow and they don’t really want to change a lot and also migrate their data to several different programs…

If they're completely unwilling to do this, linux is probably not a good idea for them in the first place, tbh.

I think one thing won’t change though and that is the big selling point of Linux having a big package repository. That just has a lot of advantages, also for the beginners. And the maintainers invest a lot of time so everything works smoothly. And it makes it stupidly easy to do a lot of things.

You can install any normal packages in fedora kinoite/bazzite, actually, because of rpm-ostree, this isn't really a disadvantage of immutable distros, and in fact, the largest, most up to date distro is nixos, which is immutable too!

I mean ultimately the details don’t matter. My mom doesn’t need the latest Firefox or some specific operating system design. She just needs something that gets the job done and is maintainable and maybe not a hassle to operate and maintain…

Precisely why I recommend immutability, things being absolutely rock solid, and easily being able to rollback mean there's no downtime where things are just broken.

The downsides are all for hardcore users, in my experience.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Hehe, yeah my experience with Linux doesn't reflect the beginners perspective anyways. So I sometimes struggle to empathize. But I'm trying to keep up to date.

I don't think I really agree with the graph and it's implications on the real world. I've recently switched from Debian to NixOS on my private VPS. And while I now have access to NixOS unstable... I must say the number of services I had to package on my own and had to mess with... hasn't really gone down substantially. I mean it certainly has a lot of packages. But you end up doing a lot of packaging and installing anyways. At least in my experience. So I think that graph is a bit misleading if you try to infer how easy it is to install some random software.

And yeah, if something like a printer/scanner combo is supported in Linux, it's usually easy to get it going on any Linux distro. Issues start to arise once it's some old device from 2010 with bad drivers. Up until now my relatives either threw them away after some Windows update made them unusable. Or I convinced them to use Linux and that has support. Or you need to mess around with some old driver packages that depend on old and conflicting libraries, libc versions etc. I think it's a shame to waste some good printer/scanner. And usually if you replace a device that has done a good job for 10+ years, and your relatives replace that with a recent consumer printer, they're not always better off. These things have been enshittified constantly and the new printer will just have random quirks, refuse to print or scan or do other shenanigans. I'd rather not make this call. And instead keep using the printer that has proven to do it's job very well.

But as I said, I'll have to try. Not using a traditional distro should offer some advantages for those use cases. Maybe it'll get easier to install conflicting (old) library versions for some half proprietary crap. Because that's something Debian based distributions aren't really made for...