this post was submitted on 08 Dec 2024
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I don't see how deregulation of foreign tech companies would help EU economy.
The assumption is excessive regulation is one of the reason we don't have a domestic tech industry
While I don't think it's necessary the main factor, for sure it's partially true
If Apple, Google, Microsoft and other big tech are cautious and struggling to bring features in Europe while being compliance, I can't imagine how an european start up could trive as their starting market here
You can't really deregulate domestic companies only
Except all the regs these leeches are whining about only apply to them, not small startups, not because they are foreign, but because they are big. Even if the law itself does not only explicitly apply to huge companies, like the DMA that Apple is whining about, enforcement heavily skews against the big ones breaking the most laws.
And the reason they got big was not an unregulated business landscape, but tons of VC money pumped into ventures that would never have been able to simultaneously attract customers and make money. It was literally the same as the current Chinese situation with BYD, foreign country is dumping the market, killing local competition because they can afford to have a better service, because they have unlimited money.
Every single EU country had their own small social media company that was akin to MySpace. Every one of them got outcompeted by Facebook, since they had unlimited VC money. And now Facebook is one of the two notable ad companies in Europe, the other being Google, extracting all the money from the continent they possibly can, while breaking all the laws they possibly can.
Fuck them, if they have to stay, follow our laws.
That is factually wrong. Smaller outfits are exempted from some rules but you already need good legal advice to navigate these exceptions. You certainly need a lot of legal advice to navigate the remaining rules.
Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit: There must be in-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.
Please.
DMA specifically targets six big companies. DSA has most of the regs on VLOPs, which startups are not. The GDPR is not that hard to comply with, we managed with our underfunded 10 person company.
And every company needs at least one person on legal anyway, inside and outside the EU.
Just to see if I understand this right. You did that without consulting a lawyer? How do you know if you got it right?
Spending one person's wage for "legal" that went from everything from employment law to writing our ToS to GDPR.
Also, we know because of audits we got from big banks with big legal departments that would have cost us dearly if we were out of compliance.
Oh. Your company employs a qualified lawyer full-time. So it's easy in the same way that quantum physics is easy if you pay for someone with a Master's degree in physics. I think you seriously overestimate how many people are university graduates.
Every single company, even a sole entrepreneur needs legal aid to navigate basic shit, GDPR is literally the least of it.
Again, employment contracts, supplier contracts, terms of service, who does all that? Are you aware what goes into running a business?
With due respect, you are very much out of touch. Few businesses employ full-time lawyers. Think about the businesses you interact with in your personal, daily life. Shops, restaurants, handymen, doctors, ... Which of those do you think have a lawyer on the staff? Large chains will have entire legal departments, but not your ordinary small business. That's how such regulations favor the big incumbents, as has been pointed out.
How many lemmy instances are run by lawyers, do you think?
All that costs a lot of money. Contrary to what you might expect, many businesses will think that's splendid. The customer pays and not the business. If a business is good at navigating regulations, then the extra cost becomes a competitive advantage. It's just the customer who's stuck with the enshittification.
Even a sole entrepreneur needs to consult a lawyer to get started. GDPR compliance is actually much easier than employment law in most of the EU.
You don't need a lawyer on staff, you need one on appointment, that's all.
How many have been sued or shut down by GDPR related stuff? If anything, this proves the GDPR is not a barrier for a random person to own and operate a small social media site. So what's the problem?
Lemmy servers have to deal with way more than just GDPR.
Some people get away with tax fraud. Does that mean that tax laws don't matter?
Someone once told me that it doesn't matter that the EU makes bad laws. They just exist to give law enforcement something to work with. To me, that sounds like enabling corruption. Some Americans claim that these regulations are just to shake down US firms. Sometimes I wonder if they are right.
I still don't get your point, if Lemmy servers have a higher barrier to entry than just doing GDPR, why would GDPR be a barrier to entry for them?
More senseless regulations mean more work and more risk. Also, the enforcement mechanisms are different. So, in terms of corruption, more people get a say in whether you can go ahead.
So the solution to corruption is to not have rules at all? And what "senseless regulations" do you mean? If you want to deal with people's data, you have to respect the people, that's all. You can avoid the whole thing by not collecting people's data.
Is it really unthinkable to have rules that are applied equally to all?
Not true. Besides, some things just don't work otherwise, like lemmy.
It is true though. And rules are in fact applied equally.
You probably also think that this lemmy instance is compliant. Well, that's why your firm has a professional lawyer.
No, to the point blue sky, not exactly big tech, is struggling to comply, after being called out.
They said they will, it's not even bad faith.
Contrary to common beliefs, regulations strongly favour big companies, because they have the resources to keep up with burocracy, while gatekeeping smaller companies
The problem isn't VC money either, because American and global funds invest in European companies too, there aren't just as many eligible ones.
Most successful start up in Europe still decide to get listen on american exchanges (see the recent klarna case) This is purely because of favorable environment lol
I mean, I really don't care, but that's exactly how european economy remained, keep doing the same thing expecting a different outcome doesn't seem smart
And no, Volkswagen is the 10th company in the world by revenues, it's not dumping, European manufacturers simply can't keep the pace. The most sold EV in Europe right now is Tesla lol
You mean Bluesky, the US VC funded company?
And by struggling, you mean this? 15 million should be enough to hire a part-time consultant for like 40k a year to tell you what pages you have to have and where. Especially if you have already founded Twitter, this should be straightforward. The EU is allergic to companies not giving a fuck, and this was Bluesky not giving a fuck. And this was not an EU fine, this was a public statement of "please".
And EU regulations usually strongly favour the consumer. GDPR compliance is easy, I know, I've done it personally for an adtech company of all, actually. As long as you have consent, it's all fine, the "oh it's so strict we can't even do anything" crowd usually wants to do something without consent which is clearly illegal, and thus "hard to do".
DMA does not apply to anything other than 6 big tech companies, so nothing to talk about there. The DSA only requires Bluesky to be transparent about moderation and offer a way to report illegal content. That's it. All the strict stuff only applies once you become a VLOP, so again, only the big ones.
Where are the scary regulations killing small businesses and stifling innovation, exactly?
It's purely because the USD is the biggest trade and reserve currency of the world, so most investment also comes in the form of USD, as most investors primarily operate in USD and thus don't have to factor in currency conversion risks. Wall Street sucks, and regulatory capture has risks of its own, but as long as the US military shoots anyone not trading in USD, we all go there to beg billionaires for money.
Who's talking about Volkswagen? I meant BYD.
The car manufacturer several times smaller than the local incumbents, thriving in the EU because of a good product? Where are the scary regulations scaring them off?
I see your point and in the end I don't know, but I doubt it has that much of an impact.
There's a lot of regulation to consider, but much of it surely increases competition and chances for others.
Like portability of personal data, or blocking those giants buying EU companies, or having to follow EU consumer-friendly laws and protection.
What regulations do you think are the biggest negative factors?