this post was submitted on 28 Nov 2024
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[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 day ago (1 children)

A game that's got well written characters representing minorities or which includes political theming and executes it well (e.g. Bioshock, Fallout 2 or Disco Elysium) is more woke than any other. That kind of game's core concept is to make a strong point about structural injustice in society.

Games with token representation or the plot is thin but the main character is a woman so you're sexist of you don't buy it are generally not woke at all. They're only pretending to be as a marketing strategy. They're not doing anything to make anyone think about structural injustice in society, and are instead appealing to the common don't be horrible to groups that it was normal to be horrible to decades ago that their market research team determined were already agreed with by most of their potential customers. It's just capitalism noticing that mysogynists etc. are no longer the largest demographic and being very unsubtle when signalling that the product thinks women are people.

There are a small number of very vocal people who complain about both kinds of game. They don't want people to acknowledge that treating women as people is now the default, but even more than that, they don't want people to play Bioshock as then if they're shown anything by Ayn Rand, they'll be immediately able to spot the flawed logic on her philosophy. They're careful to make sure to present it as if they're only complaining about the virtue-signalling-as-marketing kind as everyone recognises that they're generally crap, so it makes it look like they're making a reasonable argument. It also means people amplify the argument, but by using phrases like woke instead of badly written it makes it easier to correctly label well-written games containing politics they disagree with as woke, too, and have people make the association with being badly written annoying slop by themselves, without having people who've played the game point out that it is well-written and someone saying otherwise is an idiot.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago) (1 children)

They’re not doing anything to make anyone think about structural injustice in society,

What does this have to do with enjoying games? At their core, games are meant to entertain, engage, and immerse players in experiences that transcend the everyday. The primary goal is enjoyment.

Injecting external debates, especially contentious ones, into this space often detracts from what makes games special. It shifts the focus from the creativity, storytelling, and fun that unite players to divisive topics that many come to games to escape from.

False dilemma #1:

It’s just capitalism noticing that mysogynists etc. are no longer the largest demographic and being very unsubtle when signalling that the product thinks women are people.

Capitalism itself doesn’t "notice" anything; it responds to consumer demand and market trends. The idea of a "misogynist demographic" is flawed because such a group doesn’t actually exist in any meaningful, targeted way.

Textbook Straw man:

There are a small number of very vocal people who complain about both kinds of game. They don’t want people to acknowledge that treating women as people is now the default,

Who exactly are the “small number of very vocal people” you’re referring to? Are you speaking about a specific group or just a generalized idea of dissenters? Without evidence or clear examples, this comes across as a vague accusation rather than a meaningful argument.

Moreover, how is it that you’re aware of their intentions? What concrete actions have they taken to actively prevent people from acknowledging that treating women as people is now the default? Are there examples of deliberate efforts to suppress this acknowledgment, or is this an assumption about their motives?

Ironically, the statement itself mirrors the behaviors it criticizes: it paints a reductive, hostile caricature of the opposing view while claiming moral high ground.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 day ago (1 children)

Hey buddy, turning every response into a recitation of the "List of Fallacies" poster you likely have up above your monitor doesn't mean you're "winning". If you have an actual point to make, just make it and stop debating how people debate.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 22 hours ago (1 children)

I never said this was about ‘winning,’ nor do I see it that way. My goal is to engage in a meaningful discussion, but resorting to personal attacks or dismissing my approach doesn’t contribute to that. If there’s a specific point you’d like to address or clarify, I’m happy to continue the conversation constructively.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 22 hours ago

I’m happy to continue the conversation constructively

Lol, good one.