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Half of Ukrainians Want Quick, Negotiated End to War (news.gallup.com)

submitted 1 day ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Unfortunately, as an Estonian, I know people whose families were affected by the forced deportations.

Oh well, I never really said that Russia is good, it has done lots of bad things, including to the Baltic states.

It's just that what Zelensky is doing to us is infinitely worse than what would probably be "under Russian rule".

By the way, how do you feel about Crimean Tatars or the Holodomor? Are those just anti-Russian propaganda too?

Holodomor - my great grandmother lived through it, I have little reason to doubt it or think that it is anti-Russian propaganda, it was terrible.

Crimean Tatars - I'm not very familiar with this topic so I'm not sure what exactly you're referring to (I guess it's the deportations?), but I'm sure it was also indeed a bad thing.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago) (1 children)

It’s just that what Zelensky is doing to us is infinitely worse than what would probably be “under Russian rule”.

I guess that's true, I'm not a fan of forced conscription and punishable desertion either. But if Russia wins, have you escaped forced conscription for good? Or will you be forced to fight in Putin's next conquest?

For now, you have a chance to build your own country still. Yes there's a lot of corruption and many, many other issues. Yes, the GDP per capita is pretty weak so Ukrainians are better off working abroad. But you still get a say in matters. Zelenskyy the comedian was elected because people were tired of the status quo. Has he fixed everything? Probably not, but he can still be replaced. In the modern day Russian empire you either vote for Putin or your vote doesn't count.

Crimean Tatars - I’m not very familiar with this topic so I’m not sure what exactly you’re referring to (I guess it’s the deportations?), but I’m sure it was also indeed a bad thing.

Yes, I meant the deportations. Russia deported every single one of them because they saw them as a geopolitical threat in Crimea. Here in the Baltics at least it was mostly people with land or nasty back-stabbing neighbours that were deported, not specific ethnic groups generally.

Anyway, I'm glad to see you're not a Russian shill, but an actual person with a real view to the entire issue. Obviously I support your right to not go to war against Russia. But I think just laying down arms isn't a solution either. Of course, I have a vested interest of my own. The more your brothers and sisters weaken Russia, the safer I am too.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

But if Russia wins, have you escaped forced conscription for good? Or will you be forced to fight in Putin's next conquest?

Forced conscription in general - probably not.
What Zelensky's doing is not just forced conscription, it's literally kidnapping people off the streets, putting them into vans, often beating them in the process, keeping people in basements for multiple days, etc. and only then sending them to the meatgrinder. It's also has been described in western medias already btw, it's called "busification" if you want to have a read / watch what happens on the Ukrainian streets.

For now, you have a chance to build your own country still. Yes there's a lot of corruption and many, many other issues. Yes, the GDP per capita is pretty weak so Ukrainians are better off working abroad. But you still get a say in matters. Zelenskyy the comedian was elected because people were tired of the status quo. Has he fixed everything? Probably not, but he can still be replaced. In the modern day Russian empire you either vote for Putin or your vote doesn't count.

With Zelenaky in leadership nobody has any say. He is for a long time already an unelected usurper. I am not here to discuss whether voting in Russia is rigged or not, but at least people there can vote, can form political parties. Under Zelensky's regime you simply can't.
I'd love to see my country an indepent and free country, but the first pre-requirement for that is removing Zelensky from power (trialing him for crimes against humanity would be nice, but I know that it would never happen), and then seek a compromise with Russia.
He and his regime are threat #1 to us.

Obviously I support your right to not go to war against Russia.

Thank you.

But I think just laying down arms isn't a solution either.

People should be able to decide for themselves. Zelensky knows it's not on the table for his regime, because apart from a few nationalists (a lot of whom are already dead) nobody is going to fight for his regime.

Of course, I have a vested interest of my own. The more your brothers and sisters weaken Russia, the safer I am too.

This is not a nice thing to say, but at least you're honest about this in contrast to the hypocrites who say that they are "helping us".