this post was submitted on 17 Nov 2024
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It's only for four months. Putin doesn't mind how many Russians will die until Trump gets in and tells Ukraine to surrender his buddy.
What is the point of drafted Ukrainians dying for the next four months? You already accept Ukraine will inevitably surrender.
You're ignoring the "USSR" - acquiring neighbor states to loot also. What if Ukraine and Chechen, etc, want to be left on their own?
Ah so putin is the good guy whos checks notes liberating the ukraine and totally reasonable in his target choices?
surely you have a lot of irrefutable sources for your claims.
It's crazy how many people here are touting the widely disclaimed coup or genocide.
Like surely there's a lot of publicly accessible, independent data on all of that, right?
Surely there's a very good reason why Crimea was invaded in a cloak-and-dagger operation by unmarked soldiers while russia officially demented any accusations it's their troops? Surely.
Muricacentric much?
Strawman, letsgooo.
Besides your random made up arguments, here are some numbers on civilian casualties:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1293492/ukraine-war-casualties/
There's of course a bunch of civilian massacres still under active investigation, plus a lot of varying numbers between UA officials and independent reports. Mostly it's just the precise numbers that are unclear, not the act itself. See:
https://www.osce.org/files/f/documents/f/a/515868.pdf https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/06/ukraine-deadly-mariupol-theatre-strike-a-clear-war-crime-by-russian-forces-new-investigation/ https://www.npr.org/2022/06/27/1107854331/russian-missile-strike-shopping-mall-kremenchuk
But of course these are all western propaganda, please enlighten me with your credible sources full of irrefutable proof that i'm entirely consumed by fake news.
Righty, we're playign a game of semantics not content. Got it.
I wrote
Any further specific claims came from you.
Further:
me acknowledging the unclear nature of war-time reports.
Again, the rest is you projecting a slightly different argument onto my words to give yourself an easier time filing me away as a "propaganda victim" or whatever.
If I were to argue like you do, I'd now go off about how you claim ALL civilian casualties died at Ukrainian hands.
I don't do that though, instead I'd ask you to provide the detailed breakdown you seem to have you hands on.
You seem to also have missed this:
Meaning, your alleged genocide is not in this dataset.
And lastly, you're still not providing literally anything of substance yourself. You only tactic is discredit any potential source and ignore the ones you don't wanna engage with in advance so you can later claim "no that one doesn't count, I already said it's propaganda" while the only thing you're currently leaning on is an opinion piece from a heavily biased borderline conspiracy rag.
Either you engage with what I'm writing and work with the people you're talking to, or you keep arguing in bad faith. If you pick the latter, feel free, go off king, i'm not interested.
You didnt present anything buddy. I read your link. It was inconsequential. Do you have anything that actually refute any of the facts? Lets just go for the civillian deaths, ignoring all and any speculative accusations. Just the hard numbers. Who killed them. How many?
The argument wasnt about which source you like. You just pivoted there for you have nothing relevant to add. Your first move was to deflect from the topic at hand to an argument about sources. Okay there are dozens of them, which ones do you allow for this discussion?
Okay, cool, news sites have conflicts of interest. Thats why you vet the ones that are mostly neutral DESPITE ties. Same applies to yours, but thats nothing you can even fucking fathom.
Stop deflecting. Stay on topic for just one comment.
Drop your sources on the civillian deaths or shut up and move on.
That's still false :)
Ah must've been the ukrainians killing civillians on Ukrainian ground then DROP YOUR SOURCE.
Just wanna point out that in this initial reply to the comment tree, you did the exact same thing I just called you out on:
Misrepresenting (or to not assume malice, misREADING) another comment to then spin your entire narrative around that error.
They said:
You base your retort on:
"this already shows you are terrible at reading. How am I supposed to expect you to treat anything else I show you seriously when you cannot even read your own material?"
Thats a lot of words that all don't say "my bad i misread that". Try that for once.
Ukrainians are NOT Russians. It doesn't mean the same thing.
Define paraphrasing :D
not my fault you just sent me 3 or 4 responses across the thread
I have a feeling our timelines diverged a good bit earlier than that, not sure if we'll be able to hold amy meaningful conversation.
Still lacking any substance or source btw, I'll stop engaging now.
Four months more for Ukraine to ramp up production for their own long-range missiles.
Ukraine has no ability to produce long range missiles whatsoever. These are all American missiles operated by American personnel. The Ukrainians can’t even launch them, never mind build them. And since it takes American personnel to launch them, it would mean the US is literally directly attacking Russia, at which point this in no way can be considered a “proxy” or “cold” war anymore, but a hot war between the two largest nuclear powers.
https://united24media.com/war-in-ukraine/ukrainian-made-long-range-missiles-a-potential-turning-point-in-the-war-3096
They are developing them tho. Also they got their long range drones, that already managed to explode russian oil. So it's not a realm of possibilities.
Also it has never been considered a proxy war. It's literal Russian propaganda punch line, my dude. Find better sources than RT
The best source you have for these long range missiles is some Mickey Mouse Ukrainian propaganda outlet? Most of Ukraine’s industrial capacity was in eastern Ukraine, which western Ukraine has lost access to. This sounds like some Ghost of Kyiv-level Wunderwaffe.
It has always been considered a proxy war, to weaken and ideally regime change or even Balkanize Russia[1][2]. The US government and corporate media aren’t going to tell you that, though[1]. Russia calling it a proxy war is not proof that it is not one. Find better sources yourself.
Did the CIA used mind control for the Russians to invade? Hard to see how the US could have started the proxy war.