TenForward: Where Every Vulcan Knows Your Name

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I've got a spicy take, but desperately want to get it off my chest (self.tenforward)

submitted 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) by Ashyr to c/[email protected]

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My wife and I are rewatching The Next Generation and just finished Measure of a Man, the episode in season 2 in which Data’s personhood is legally debated and his life hangs in the balance.

I genuinely found this episode infuriating in its stupidity. It’s the first episode we skipped even a little bit. It was like nails on a chalkboard.

There is oodles of legal precedent that Data is a person. He was allowed to apply to Starfleet, graduated, became an officer and rose to the rank of Lt. Commander with all the responsibilities and privileges thereof.

Comparing him to a computer and the judge advocate general just shrugging and going to trial over it is completely idiotic. There are literal years and years of precedent that he’s an officer.

The problem is compounded because Picard can’t make the obvious legal argument and is therefore stuck philosophizing in a court room, which is all well and good, but it kind of comes down to whether or not Data has a soul? That’s not a legal argument.

The whole thing is so unbelievably ludicrous it just made me angrier and angrier. It wasn’t the high minded, humanistic future I’ve come to know and love, it was a kangaroo court where reason and precedent took a backseat to feeling and belief.

I genuinely hated it.

To my surprise, in looking it up, I discovered it’s considered one of the high water marks for the entire show. It feels like I’m taking crazy pills.

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[–] [email protected] 23 points 3 weeks ago (4 children)

(This is vague enough that I don't feel spoilers are necessary)

Perhaps another computer attempting to join Starfleet, but it looks like a box rather than a person and asks Data to argue its personhood.

They kind of had that exact opportunity in Discovery. But instead of an entire courtroom episode, it was more of a forced arbitration scene :(

[–] Ashyr 7 points 3 weeks ago (3 children)

I don’t mind spoilers—but use spoiler tags if necessary—what do you mean?

[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (2 children)

Discovery S2-5 Spoiler (Zora)

Discovery encounters an ancient, sentient sphere which uploads its 10,000 years or so of knowledge to the ship's computer. The data eventually merges with the ship's AI and becomes sentient. She names herself Zora and wants to join Starfleet.

Which would easily have led into an updated version of "Measure of a Man", but the whole subplot was basically resolved in a scene and a half that basically amounted to an interview.

The only handwave is that they're almost 1,000 years in the future at that point, so sapient AI rights may have advanced considerably in the interim and an interview may have been all that was necessary?

[–] Ashyr 6 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

That’s too bad. Anything involving sentience and how we evaluate it is so fascinating and it absolutely could have been more interesting than that.

[–] Reverendender 6 points 3 weeks ago

That was one of Discovery’s main problems. It was always on the cusp of doing/becoming something awesome, but could never, ever manage to stick the landing. Often cools ideas, terribly executed and/or realized. Very frustrating.