this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2024
-31 points (15.6% liked)

Conservative

377 readers
18 users here now

A place to discuss pro-conservative stuff

  1. Be excellent to each other. Civility, No Racism, No Bigotry, No Slurs, No calls to violences, No namecalling, All that good stuff, follow lemm.ee's rules, follow the rules of your instance, etc.

  2. We are a Pro-Conservative forum. Posts must have a clear pro-conservative, or anti left-wing bias. We are interested in promoting conservatism and discussing things that might get ignored elsewhere. All sources are acceptable, however reputable sources with a reputation for factual reporting are preferred.

  3. Dissent is allowed in the comments, but try to be constructive; if you do not agree, then provide a reason which is backed up by references or a reasonable alternative interpretation of the provided facts. That means the left wing is welcome to state their opinions, but please keep it in good faith.

A polite request, not a rule, if you feel the need to report a comment, please don't reply to it.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] -1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

@LookBehindYouNowAndThen @wintermute_oregon

By definition, the Radical Republicans were progressives.

Back then it had a lot more to do with industry than Communism.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Your profile says you're a conservative and a fascist? @neuromancer said before they're incompatible, and he's a conservative.

He also says Lincoln was a conservative.

Why do you both say the opposite? Is conservatism so meaningless that such fundamental differences are just ignored?

Why do you think conservatives deny that fascists are part of their movement when they clearly are?

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 month ago

@Zombiepirate

As to what conservatism is, I write about that a lot:

https://www.amerika.org/

It is a focus on order beyond the individual and the social group; we call it realism, and it tends to favor historically-proven results and a case-by-case basis instead of ideological categorical containers.

About ten thousand people in North America can successfully parse that sentence.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

@Zombiepirate

Fascists are hybrids. Fascism is corporatism, i.e. state control through corporations.

What does my profile say?

"Furthest Right: raging realism plus transcendental reverence. I write at https://www.amerika.org/ and https://www.deathmetal.org/ about topics such as nihilism, ecofascism, paganism, eugenics, capitalism, perennialism, conservatism, natural selection, and of course death metal."

Ecofascism is a separate movement. You read your Linkola and Kaczynski?

Full readout here:
https://annihilation.social/notice/AgRr091ay4W0HCTtcu

Lincoln was a radical. He, too, was a hybrid, in that he came from the Anglo tradition but was outside of it as a "radical."

He was a progressive of his age. He was closer to Marx than Washington.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

So you're saying that fascists and conservatives work to similar ends?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

@Zombiepirate

The most conservative society:

* Absolute monarchy
* Ethno-nationalist
* Free market based
* Caste system
* Culture/religion united

Like anything else, there are degrees of conservatism.

Some conservatives, like GWB, are barely conservative.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

You're wanting the US to be an ethnostate again then?

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 month ago

@Zombiepirate

Absolutely, and every other nation as well, since it is the best way and I wish them well.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 month ago

@Zombiepirate

Diversity is suicide.

So is socialism.

[–] [email protected] -3 points 1 month ago (1 children)

@Zombiepirate

Fascists still believe in the State; conservatives are free market devotees but ambivalent if not hostile to the State.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Not all conservatives are free market devotees; that's a modern twist that is not universal.

But you agree that they work to the same ends?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

@Zombiepirate

I disagree. Conservatives naturally favor organic methods like common law, free markets, culture, and hierarchy.

As far as work to the same ends, I think you have it backwards. Fascism is a hybrid. It borrows some goals and methods from both Left and Right.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

Conservatism also borrows from the leftist rhetoric and action though, so that's not a solid distinction.

They're both counterrevolutionary in nature; I don't see the distinction that you do. It appears that they are possibly different in degree instead of kind. This is the "ends" that I refer to: opposition to the liberal revolutions since the 18th century.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

@Zombiepirate

Conservatism existed before Leftism. Any borrowing is the other way.

Leftism is inherently revolutionary. You recall the origins of the term?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago) (1 children)

Conservatism was a reaction to revolutionary politics, it did not proceed it. Even the name makes it clear that it is a response to action.

Leftism is inherently revolutionary, and conservatism was a response to that.

But back to my original question: why do you think @neuromancer denies that fascists and conservatives make natural allies?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

@Zombiepirate

On the contrary, conservatives were always here. We just had to take a name after Leftism so people did not think we supported the "new way."

I don't think conservatives and fascists make natural allies. Conservatives and conservatives make natural allies. You cannot trust the radical big state people.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (2 children)

But conservatives want a big state too, they just claim otherwise. Look how they push rhetoric like "back the blue," are for abortion restrictions, and want to fund the military above and beyond what it even asks for. Their policies push a soft ethno-state, as far as they think they can get away with.

Again, it's a meaningless distinction.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 month ago (1 children)

@Zombiepirate

Saying "conservatives" is often difficult because conservatism is a big tent of realists to varying degrees.

Evangelical Christians certainly care about abortion a lot. The Social Darwinists want it cheap, legal, and easily accessed however.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 month ago (1 children)

Well @neuromancer clearly doesn't take issue with your ethnostate garbage, so he obviously thinks you're allies.

That's the "big tent" you're taking about, yes?

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 month ago

@Zombiepirate

Lots of people realize that a mono-ethnic society is a necessary but not sufficient condition for survival, even some Leftists.

I cannot speak for the opinions of others.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 month ago

@Zombiepirate

Also, remove civil rights law and an ethnostate will form naturally.

We are trying to limit any extremes that might occur in order to save lives.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 1 month ago

@Zombiepirate

Also, wanting something other than the revolutionary order is not opposition.

It's a choice for an alternative.

Ordinary people recognize that, but ideologues do not.