this post was submitted on 08 Sep 2024
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[–] [email protected] 35 points 2 months ago (2 children)

Since no one has mentioned it, USA has the same policy basically.

[–] [email protected] 29 points 2 months ago (2 children)

And for good reason, really. The supply of livers is too small to save everyone who needs them, so they give them to the people most likely to have a successful outcome. Basically every lived given to one person is sentencing another person to death. That's just reality with supply being what it is.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Their boyfriend volunteered as a live donor. They weren't asking to be put on the general register.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Which was determined to be unlikely to be successful given her condition, so she would have just died in the attempt.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago

Read the article again. It said early on her chances were actually quite good, something like 80%

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

That's not true. Living donors can donate part of their liver.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago (3 children)

Wait, so if someone was ever an alcoholic - they gonna be denied? Even if they stopped drinking for many years?

[–] [email protected] 41 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Doctor here who has referred patients for transplant. No. You must be six months sober to be eligible for the transplant list. There’s so few livers to go around, they need to be sure the recipient isn’t going to just break the next one.

It’s rare to suddenly need a liver; they usually take months to fail and this gives the patient and doctor months of notice to try treating the failure first (including lifestyle changes and meds) before getting sick enough to go apply for a transplant.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I used to trust HCPs, but I know many of them now and have heard them shit-talk and judge their patients for mental health issues and drug use (among other things). I would NEVER, EVER tell a doctor or nurse about any form of drug or alcohol use now, or any kind of anger issues that could possibly be interpreted as aggressive. Especially not in a hospital where everything gets recorded in an electronic chart and may be used against you in the future. Fuck that.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

I’m sorry you have such a low opinion, maybe you heard someone venting about their job after work?

You really think lying about your drug use is safe? It’s dangerous to give many types of anesthesia if you’re on drugs or alcohol. We don’t particularly care if you use or not, we don’t tell police or family, you just need to be honest so we can do our job correctly.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

If I was going under anesthesia for a planned procedure, I would not drink or use drugs beforehand. If it was an unplanned emergency, I guess it would depend on the circumstances, but you are citing an extreme circumstance. If someone is actively high at the time they end up in the emergency department, well, that's bad luck and it might be wise to disclose since the staff will figure it out pretty darn quick anyway. Same if you are a severe alcoholic or opiate addict. That's not what I'm talking about, though. I'm talking about when doctors or nurses ask you about it as a lifestyle question.

You know as well as I do that the health care system classifies people in terms of their risk factors and then use that profile to make decisions about you. Once classified as a "drug user" in your chart, many doctors and nurses will treat you differently. They may or may not "care" from a moral perspective, and we know that they won't tell family or police, but that won't necessarily stop them from denying you necessary pain relief or deprioritizing you in triage. That's the actual concern.

There is absolutely no reason to tell a doctor if you use cannabis or engage in moderate alcohol use or occasionally use cocaine, LSD, or psylocibin. If you are prescribed a medication that has an interaction with a recreational drug, the doctor can simply tell you that. They don't need to know if you use that drug from time to time. Only you, the patient, need to know that so you can avoid the interaction. More extreme forms of drug use are a different story, of course.

Edit: Let me add one other overarching point. I think people are sick and tired of having doctors make decisions for them. I don't need a nanny. I need information about risks and benefits in order to make an informed choice. Doctors rarely do that. Instead, they decide what should be prescribed, or not prescribed, regardless of the patient's wishes. I know the reason is fear of liability, but here we are nonetheless.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Ah, you think you know better than doctors. Many people think this. Many have bad outcomes with nobody to blame but themselves.

I don’t care if you use cannabis, heck I can legally prescribe you some if you need it. Doctors are not law enforcement. I don’t bat an eye if you tell em you use cocaine, I’ll still give you morphine after surgery but I need to know you used cocaine so I can avoid beta blockers. You’re paranoid we’re judging you but you’re wrong. You’re not as rare as you think. We know you’re in pain regardless of your drug use and treat you anyway.

Only you, the patient, need to know that so you can avoid the interaction

Many idiots who died in hospital thought that too, which is why we make you sign consent forms so that your family can no longer sue us for your stupid mistake.

It’s like you have no idea how doctors work and have an outdated idea of them. Your loss.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago

You misunderstand me. I don't think I know better than doctors. Far from it. What I want from a doctor is information and informed choice, not a gatekeeper who makes decisions for me. As a group, physicians have been slow to adopt the patient-centered informed choice mentality that, for example, nurse practitioners and midwives have more thoroughly adopted.

The fact that you've doubled down here on calling patients idiots for being somewhat distrustful of the typical arrogant physician attitude confirms what I'm saying.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Their boyfriend was willing to be a living donor for them. So you aren't talking about a scarce resource here.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 2 months ago (1 children)

She literally quit when she was told she had a failing liver that could not recover. Just to be clear, there is absolutely no way in hell that she didn't know she was on the way to killing her liver with her drinking because there are a plethora of signs long before you get to the point where alcohol has destroyed your liver beyond its own ability to repair itself. (Which is incredibly prodigious. The liver is the single most regenerative organ in the human body)

So forgive me if I'm skeptical that she really would have stopped being an alcoholic after she received a liver transplant.

IMO this was a tragedy of her own making and the money and effort in transplanting a liver would have been a complete waste. (Even one offered by her SO.) Especially when there is such a deficit of available organs and the surgeons who do the transplanting are needed for patients who aren't likely to go back on the sauce 6 months later.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 2 months ago

the pain of a cramping liver is excrutiating. if you deal with that kind of unrelenting never stopping pain und don't stop drinking, you are addicted for sure.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 2 months ago (1 children)

In most places, if they've been clean for 6 - 12 months, they are no longer considered alcoholic in terms of transplantation. Similar to Canada

[–] [email protected] 3 points 2 months ago

Notice that they never state she was an alcoholic. They also never atate she was a "high level" alcohol user. Just that she was an alcohol user.

You can make your own assumptions about her alcohol use, but in general these rules would also excluse a "normal" alcohol user with a congenital liver failure...