Memes

45759 readers

1160 users here now

Rules:

Be civil and nice.
Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 5 years ago

MODERATORS

[email protected]

298

HuMaN NatUrE! (lemmy.ml)

submitted 3 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

63 comments fedilink hide all child comments

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments

[–] Grumpy 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

Complete communism can't have free market by definition. And complete free market can't have laws to redistribute profits. That is the definition of these words. The theoretical maximum definition obviously differs from actual application as nothing is applied in a complete sense.

Revolutions and socioeconomic systems aren't human nature. Along with all your above examples. My entire point is that there is a difference between individual human nature and the societal nature. Your point of human nature wanting feudalism is opposite of my point. I'm stating that EVERY SINGLE social construct you can imagine or think of is not of the individual nature but the societal one, including feudalism. And that less of construct you require is closer to human nature. More construct required is further away from human nature. That is, communism requires greater management by the society than the free market to exist, and thus is further from human nature. You may choose to define "human nature" differently, but this is how I see it.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 months ago (1 children)

I don't think you realise how much effort systems invest into their own existence. I don't know how to begin to compare that.

Do you equate free market (what market?) with lawlessness?
That is, is robbery part of free market then? Or why not?
Im assuming you mean taxes also arent free market? In which case I wonder why other infrastructure should be. Why would any laws or police be part of the free market?

In the basic sense communism is to share labour profits by default, and there are plenty examples of that in nature. On the other hand I can't really come up an example of free market - perhaps when they introduced money to monkeys and they immediately used it for sex (but I don't recall there being much talk about pricing). They did the same when birds and they just communismed it (or remained as communist as before within a certain group I assume, taking moneys just as one of the resources).

What is in human nature is to adapt to circumstances - which includes various systems and infrastructure.

And people adapt quickly to good things as well as to bad things. Shockingly quickly in both cases.

The same with animals.
What is much harder is to go against the system & change it (like the actual system, not just the leaders or vips).

[–] Grumpy 1 points 3 months ago

Free market per wikipedia definition:

In economics, a free market is an economic system in which the prices of goods and services are determined by supply and demand expressed by sellers and buyers. Such markets, as modeled, operate without the intervention of government or any other external authority. Proponents of the free market as a normative ideal contrast it with a regulated market, in which a government intervenes in supply and demand by means of various methods such as taxes or regulations. In an idealized free market economy, prices for goods and services are set solely by the bids and offers of the participants.

It's not equal to lawlessness, but it is lawless within market. These two are not equivalent. Still, that is not to say it is without order. Free market is entirely an economic system and not a social system nor any other plethora of systems in a country. So the topic of those other systems are simply out of the scope. Therefore, laws can exist in the society.

Robbery is part of the free market. Along with whatever happens like tornadoes, fire, murder, etc. Including the cost to hire your own security if necessary. Police is against free market because it is an intervention by the government. There does exist a grey area like if a robber becomes a gang and becomes a businesses' external authority. Then they are impeding on the free market.

This is how free market is defined. So, to reiterate, if there exists any body that is redistributing your profit, it is against free market.

Communism is not a share of labour profits. Communism is more than just an economic system. It's also a social and philosophical one. But assuming we're only talking about the economic parts, it still doesn't mean to share labour profits. Quoting wikipedia once again:

Communism is [...] a socioeconomic order centered around common ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange that allocates products to everyone in the society based on need.

The keyword here is common ownership. Everyone owns the entire chain of production together. Your view on the concept of profit even existing is out of line with communism. From wikipedia:

Monetary relations in the form of exchange-value, profit, interest, and wage labor would not operate and apply to Marxist socialism.

If we go with Marxist version, you already own everything together and nothing has monetary value. You can't have profit because there is no such thing as selling, and there is no money, so you can't profit on anything. The concept of the profit sharing would be anti-communism.

If we go with Lenin's view on state capitalism (which he said is not communism, but may be a necessary transition state to communism) where we accept that things have value but that only the state engages in capitalism, people still wouldn't get profit. Because people still wouldn't have money. You would simply have better status in livelihood in hopes that the state has used that money well for the benefit of the people.

Communism is not profit sharing, its very core purpose is to remove the concept of profit.

Sharing of labour profits at a nation level is called "labour share". And at a company level, it is called "co-operative business".