this post was submitted on 20 May 2024
200 points (86.0% liked)

politics

18973 readers
3138 users here now

Welcome to the discussion of US Politics!

Rules:

  1. Post only links to articles, Title must fairly describe link contents. If your title differs from the site’s, it should only be to add context or be more descriptive. Do not post entire articles in the body or in the comments.
  2. Articles must be relevant to politics. Links must be to quality and original content. Articles should be worth reading. Clickbait, stub articles, and rehosted or stolen content are not allowed. Check your source for Reliability and Bias here.
  3. Be civil, No violations of TOS. It’s OK to say the subject of an article is behaving like a (pejorative, pejorative). It’s NOT OK to say another USER is (pejorative). Strong language is fine, just not directed at other members. Engage in good-faith and with respect! This includes accusing another user of being a bot or paid actor. Trolling is uncivil and is grounds for removal and/or a community ban.
  4. No memes, trolling, or low-effort comments. Reposts, misinformation, off-topic, trolling, or offensive.
  5. Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion; please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
  6. No hate speech, slurs, celebrating death, advocating violence, or abusive language. This will result in a ban. Usernames containing racist, or inappropriate slurs will be banned without warning

We ask that the users report any comment or post that violate the rules, to use critical thinking when reading, posting or commenting. Users that post off-topic spam, advocate violence, have multiple comments or posts removed, weaponize reports or violate the code of conduct will be banned.

All posts and comments will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. This means that some content that violates the rules may be allowed, while other content that does not violate the rules may be removed. The moderators retain the right to remove any content and ban users.

That's all the rules!

Civic Links

Register To Vote

Citizenship Resource Center

Congressional Awards Program

Federal Government Agencies

Library of Congress Legislative Resources

The White House

U.S. House of Representatives

U.S. Senate

Partnered Communities:

News

World News

Business News

Political Discussion

Ask Politics

Military News

Global Politics

Moderate Politics

Progressive Politics

UK Politics

Canadian Politics

Australian Politics

New Zealand Politics

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Hi. Old soldier here. You're wrong. Go home and think about your life choices. The entire idea of war crimes was created by soldiers. Violating those laws isn't some kind of alpha power move. It's weak and cowardly. If they're so much stronger then they should be able to protect the civilians. They either cannot and are lying, or will not and deserve the violence they receive.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

Hey guys, this dudes a soldier so he must be super well educated in international relations!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realism_(international_relations)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

You saw the "no central authority" line and thought this would be a good idea didn't you? But no. Rules of war have existed for thousands of years. Because even ancient soldiers and their countries realized you still had to live with your neighbors after you fight. Realism does not preclude rules and agreements. It just means countries are going to look after their self interest first. This is what you get for citing Wikipedia on something you go to college for. (I actually did by the way. The GI Bill paid for studies in international politics)

There's also Liberalism, Rationalism, and Constructivism. But for some reason all the edgy kids go straight for Realism. The truth is the world order is made with a mix of these ideas. We have the UN, a liberal institution. The UN cannot act without the Security Council, a realist institution. But no, nobody wants to hear that. It's all got to be that sexy Realism, because then they're free to do whatever they want.

Well guess what? That never worked. The last pure realist died of a stroke in 1953. Even GW Bush called up NATO for Afghanistan and put together a coalition for Iraq. For all his bluster about acting unilaterally he wasn't a pure realist.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I don't have much time to continue this conversation with you (and I'll ignore the attempts at belittling my stance), but I will just add that Liberalism, Idealism, etc are really only relevant when the other side(s) are also abiding by those norms. As soon as one side pursues Realist actions (like Bibi, Hamas, or Putin), then the only response is to match their force.

Also:

realism underscores the competitive and conflictual nature of global politics

realism asserts that the dynamics of the international arena revolve around states actively advancing national interests and prioritizing security

realism argues that states operate in a realm devoid of inherent justice, where ethical norms may not apply

each of the parties choose to protect their own self-interests at the expense of the other participant

This illustrates how a realist state might interact with another state; whether to protect its own resources or risk everything to achieve its goals

Just to try to clarify my reasoning on even bringing this up - I'm not trying to justify individual soldiers' actions in a specific conflict. I'm trying to make it clear that in state vs. state conflicts, what you would typically consider to be norms go out the window as each will prioritize their security and power. Thus, when one that is weaker attacks another that is stronger, you should expect an overwhelming response

[–] [email protected] 0 points 4 months ago

That's not true at all. In a Counter Insurgency environment against a group like HAMAS it's even more important not to match them. You kill them by killing their ideas. And you do that by being demonstrably better so they can't recruit anymore.

And with Russia you don't do it either. You want the prisoners for their information and because you can win fights easier if they know they can surrender. That doesn't change just because Russia decided to commit war crimes.

You're still stuck in the pop science idea of Realism being some macho do anything ideology. Even as you quote from the realist facet of the modern theory of using all 4 schools. There's a reason the United States, EU, and China haven't pursued pure realism. Israel isn't going to suddenly make it work. And in many ways they've already lost this war. They've destroyed their international reputation and there will be economic repercussions for them at the very least. At most, they've opened the door to a single state solution just based on their public treatment of Palestine.