this post was submitted on 17 Jul 2023
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Ukraine
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This is some bullshit. The first time Russia blockaded Ukrainian grain in the Black Sea, they had the plausible deniability that they weren't aware it was going to cause mass food shortages in poorer countries. Now they know full well that's what will happen, and they're doing it again.
The West would be justified in clearing a path in the Black Seas themselves, in my opinion. Russia's being little terrorist bitches.
Does Turkey have a big navy? Just curious, I never hear much about their army
Not particularly big, no. But neither is the Russian one, and it's fairly modern.
The main issue is they can offer to escort civilian trading vessels. If Russian forces attempt to interdict and, even by accident, attack one of the Turkish warships, that is enough justification to trigger Article 5 if Turkey wished, and pull NATO wholesale into the conflict.
While we probably wouldn't actually attack into Russia for fear of getting nuked, we could turn economic sanctions into an international blockade and eliminate every single Russian asset not hiding in Russia with warlike prejudice. Then just wait for the Ukrainians to beat them.
Turkey has the largest army in Europe at the moment with over 250k soldiers and is the second largest navy in the ~~baltic~~ black sea, maybe the strongest one actually.
(Edited, wrong sea mentioned)
Black Sea? Turkiye isn't on the Baltic
Oops, my bad, fixed. Thanks
A land army isn't that interesting fighting a navy though.
Ukraine’s land army has been very interesting in their naval war.
What if a bunch of "pirates" commandeered a US Navy carrier fleet, sailed it right up the Don river, and started taking over Russian cities?
No the United States is not justified in killing people who haven't hurt Americans
Nothing about blowing holes through Russian warships, simply escorting Ukrainian Black Sea grain shipments. Russia is free to fuck off or fire the first shot if they are that determined to let Africans starve from lack of grain.
@BombOmOm @MaxVoltage OMG they are that stupid?!
There goes support from BRICS countries and the global south!
Russia had been busy acting as the anti-colonialist, getting even with their former masters… And there they go, suddenly proving they don’t give a flying fish about people in the south starving, and it’s all been a show. 😂
Russia already has a presence in the Black Sea.
They are the ones who can currently block the harbors, and the US ships would have to fire the first shots to force them to leave, free the ports and even get to the Ukrainian ships to escort them.
Russian warships can't get within 75 miles of Ukrainian held territory for fear of another Moskva sinking. If Russia wants to open fire on NATO warships on the open sea just so Africans can starve, that is on Russia.
It's not as black and white as that. There's obviously a point where the West would have to push back against Russia. Most likely this grain deal won't be enough for the West to make any significant new moves apart from what they're already doing, but Russia is playing a stupid game by using mass hunger in poorer countries as a pawn in this war.
So developing countries, who is very dependent on imported grain, should just fend for themselves?
I don’t think USA or NATO would risk it though.
White people generally don't care that much when brown people suffer.
Oh dont worry, it wont be Americans lol. They'll just be confirming to the Turks where the Russians are amd what they're thinking
US naval vessels are barred from crossing into the ~~baltic~~ black sea last time i checked.
It will be the Turkish defending the grain ships and destroying anyone who intervenes
Go back to Lemmygrad, shill.
Mate this is Lemmy go back to BeeHaw