this post was submitted on 07 May 2024
852 points (98.1% liked)

Science Memes

13962 readers
2121 users here now

Welcome to c/science_memes @ Mander.xyz!

A place for majestic STEMLORD peacocking, as well as memes about the realities of working in a lab.



Rules

  1. Don't throw mud. Behave like an intellectual and remember the human.
  2. Keep it rooted (on topic).
  3. No spam.
  4. Infographics welcome, get schooled.

This is a science community. We use the Dawkins definition of meme.



Research Committee

Other Mander Communities

Science and Research

Biology and Life Sciences

Physical Sciences

Humanities and Social Sciences

Practical and Applied Sciences

Memes

Miscellaneous

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 9 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (4 children)

Ehh, among American academic mathematicians, including 0 is the fringe position. It's not a "debate," it's just a different convention. There are numerous ISO standards which would be highly unusual in American academia.

FWIW I was taught that the inclusion of 0 is a French tradition.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

I'm an American mathematician, and I've never experienced a situation where 0 being an element of the Naturals was called out. It's less ubiquitous than I'd like it to be, but at worst they're considered equally viable conventions of notation or else undecided.

I've always used N to indicate the naturals including 0, and that's what was taught to me in my foundations class.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago (1 children)

Of course they're considered equally viable conventions, it's just that one is prevalent among Americans and the other isn't.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I think you're using a fringe definition of the word "fringe".

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago
[–] [email protected] 6 points 11 months ago

The US is one of 3 countries on the planet that still stubbornly primarily uses imperial units. "The US doesn't do it that way" isn't a great argument for not adopting a standard.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I have yet to meet a single logician, american or otherwise, who would use the definition without 0.

That said, it seems to depend on the field. I think I've had this discussion with a friend working in analysis.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I did say mathematician, not logician.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (1 children)

Logicians are mathematicians. Well, most of them are.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

But not all mathematicians are logicians.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 11 months ago
[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (1 children)

This isn't strictly true. I went to school for math in America, and I don't think I've ever encountered a zero-exclusive definition of the natural numbers.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 11 months ago