libertarianism
About us
An open, user owned community for the general disscussion of the libertarian philosophy.
- Libertarianism is the belief that each person has the right to live his life as he chooses so long as he respects the equal rights of others.
- Libertarians defend each person’s right to life, liberty, and property.
- In the libertarian view, voluntary agreement is the gold standard of human relationships.
- If there is no good reason to forbid something (a good reason being that it violates the rights of others), it should be allowed.
- Force should be reserved for prohibiting or punishing those who themselves use force.
Most people live their own lives by that code of ethics. Libertarians believe that that code should be applied consistently, even to the actions of governments, which should be restricted to protecting people from violations of their rights. Governments should not use their powers to censor speech, conscript the young, prohibit voluntary exchanges, steal or “redistribute” property, or interfere in the lives of individuals who are otherwise minding their own business.
Source: https://www.libertarianism.org/essays/what-is-libertarianism
Rules
1. Stay on topic
We are a libertarian community. There are no restrictions regarding different stances on the political spectrum, but all posts should be related to the philosophy of libertarianism.
2. Be polite to others and respects each others opinions.
Be polite to others and respects each others opinions. We don't want any form of gatekeeping or circlejerk culture here.
3. Stay constructive and informational
In general, all types of contributions are allowed, but the relevance to this community must always be evident and presented openly by the contributor. Posts that do not meet these requirements will be removed after a public warning. Also remember to cite you sources!
4. Use self-moderation measures first before reporting.
This community is fundamentally built upon freedom of speech. Since everyone understands libertarianism differently and we do not want to exclude any kind of content a priori, we appeal to the individual users to block/mute posts or users who do not meet their requirements. Please bear this in mind when filing a report
view the rest of the comments
We already tried the system you proposed. Before patent law existed, people who invented something new would jealously guard their knowledge to ward off competition from copycats. When they died, their knowledge died with them.
As a result, even today we cannot reproduce the work of some old masters. For example, nobody knows how to make a new Stradivarius violin.
Such a waste of human genius. Patents exist for good reason.
I would argue that the problem wasn't with the fact that IP didn't exist. Patents were made to counteract a bigger problem without actually solving the reason for the problem (and in so creating bigger problems).
The problem was that they personally gained more from that knowledge being hidden than being in the open. However if you have a system where it is more beneficial for that information being open and based on cooperation that wouldn't be a problem. Think of the open source community, if you make a tool that people use it is far better for you to let the community help with fixing bugs and improving it than just working on it on your own.
There will always be people who do not expect to be compensated financially for the work for they put into their inventions. And there will always be people who do expect to be compensated financially.
The latter often includes people who make tools that they don't actually use. Unlike the open source community, they only make tools in order to sell them to others.
With a patent system, society will benefit from the efforts of both types of people. Without one, they will benefit only from the former.
Thus, patents maximize the rate of technological progress.
The only point is whether you can make a claim to it at all. Is it even possible to claim that every labour has a right to be paid? Or should the wage be related to the product of the work, which can then be rewarded accordingly? Or to put it in an example: Should we reward office workers according to their work or according to their performance? The answer of the social state is that we should reward the work, i.e. the effort, so that no one is disadvantaged on the basis of his or her ability or possibilities. As a libertarian, I tend towards the second: Equal end product - equal pay.
Some people, like open source developers, are willing to work for free. Most people are not.
Apple is coming out with a new iPhone this year. The vast majority of people who worked to produce the new iPhone would not have done so for free. Same is true of every other Apple product, all big studio movies, and nearly all AAA console games, CPUs, and GPUs. All of those things require significant capital investment (unlike most open source software), but none of those things would be profitable without IP protection. So none of them would exist without IP protection.
That doesn't mean a world without IP would completely lack new products. But it would lack easily copied products that require significant capital investment. So you would play only fan-made indie games and you would watch only self-funded low budget experimental films. You certainly would not get new versions of various consumer electronics to choose from every single year.
For the vast majority of consumers, the benefits of IP protection are worth it.
If I want to pay Joe $X for their labor and Joe is willing to accept $X for their labor, then I don't see why a libertarian bystander would object.
If you interrupted us and said, "Sorry, you guys can't do that. Joe must be paid according to a performance model I developed, or you're not allowed to hire him", then you are not a libertarian.
Stradivarius violins were made over a course of 200 years by the Stradivari family. Antonio Stradivari in particular produced violins for over 75 years! I don't think a 15 year patent would have been enough to give away their trade secrets. These were hand crafted art pieces, not mass produced items. The reality is that patent law extends all the way back to the Roman period and was mostly a legal system for emperors and kings to distribute monopolies to his favored subjects.
This is something I haven't considered. I'll think about it ;)
You should also consider that trademarks (another type of IP) exist to protect consumers.
Imagine trademark law were abolished. You go to the store to buy an Apple iPhone 14. When you get home, you realize that the Apple iPhone 14 box contains a flip phone with a sticker that says "Apple iPhone 14".
You bring it back to the store but they refuse to give your money back. You wanted a phone labeled "Apple iPhone 14", and that's what you got. Anyone can legally call their product "Apple iPhone 14" when trademarks are abolished.
Maybe you're thinking, "I'll just shop at Best Buy, because I know I can trust them." But without trademark law, nothing stops some rando from opening a store and naming it "Best Buy". Now who do you trust?
Ultimately, this means every purchase is going to take much longer, as you will need to fully inspect every product to avoid being ripped off. Every purchase will basically be like a Craigslist transaction. If that's what a libertarian IP paradise is like, I prefer the current system.
Trademarks make it possible for buyers to trust someone they haven't met before.
You, I like.
Thats going the wrong way. Of course anybody can call itself Apple but can they verify it? If not why would I buy from them? Give me like a proof on a blockchain that you product was built in an original Apple factory and shipped here and that this shop actually holds the license from the "original" apple to sell stuff officially in their name. Also before I would buy anything I'd ask to see the product myself otherwise they can kiss my ass. The blockchain is just one example. There are plenty of ways technology enables us to mark the original as such. Also these technologies will evolve with time so in the end it's just a matter of the consoomer caring or not.
So I did some research and it reinforces my suspicions. Of course, having no IP protection had many clear disadvantages. But this has not prevented the development of advanced civilizations and fundamental innovations. On the contrary. Through the open exchange of knowledge, things could be created that are far greater than a human or a company can handle. IP is a child of the Enlightenment, when ideas or something intangible began to be regarded as a structure of our intellect and thus as property, just like tangible things.
I never said that lack of IP will prevent innovation. It will, however, slow it down.
The rate of technological progress accelerated considerably at the same time that IP protections were enacted.
Gutenberg developed his printing press around 1440. The first copyright law was enacted in 1710.
How many works of literature can you name that were published in the 270 years between 1440 and 1710? How many between 1710 and 1980?
But is this still true in the days of AI and automation? What if not we humans but some neural networks will be the main researchers of tomorrow? I'm just thinking
Copyright law has already foreseen that possibility. Only things created by humans are eligible for copyright, and there are already cases where copyright was denied for work generated by an AI.