this post was submitted on 29 Apr 2024
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[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)
  1. There was not a new "beaurocratic class." Government ownership of the Means of Production is Socialist, as profits are controlled collectively, rather than by Capitalists. Beaurocrats and state planners were not a "new class" but an extension of the workers.

  2. The whithering away of the state is IMPOSSIBLE until global Socialism has been achieved. The USSR could not possibly have gotten rid of the military while hostile Capitalist countries existed. Additionally, Statelessness in the Marxian sense doesn't mean no government, but a lack of instruments by which one class oppresses another.

  3. Wage Labor did not persist for the sake of Capitalist profit, but to be used via the government, which paid for generous safety nets. To eliminate money in a Socialist state takes a long time, and cannot simply be done overnight.

I really think you need to revisit Marx. I suggest Critique of the Gotha Programme.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

@Cowbee

  1. There was a Bureaucratic class in the Soviet Union that was above everyone else. Bureaucrats held significant power and privileges distinct from the working class, which led to a stratified society rather than the classless society envisioned by socialism.
[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Bureaucrats existing, with additional powers entrusted via the rest of the workers, is not in conflict with the goals of Socialism. The government is not distinct from workers in Socialist society.

How do you believe Marx envisaged administration?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 9 months ago (2 children)

@Cowbee
While it's true that in a socialist society, bureaucrats could theoretically be accountable to the rest of the workers, the reality in many socialist states, including the Soviet Union, was that bureaucrats held significant power and privileges distinct from the rest of the working class which resulted in a hierarchical society rather than the classless society envisioned by socialism. Additionally,...

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (43 children)

Classes are social relations to the Means of Production. The goal of Communism is not equality! Instead, the goal is proving from everyone's abilities to everyone's needs.

Anti-hierarchy is not Marxist, but Anarchist.

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

@Cowbee
...the concentration of power in the hands of bureaucrats often led to abuses and corruption, undermining the democratic ideals of socialism. Thus, while bureaucrats may theoretically be part of the working class, the way power was exercised in many socialist states did not align with the egalitarian goals of socialism.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

Yes, there was corruption. The USSR was of course imperfect, but this is not sufficient to say it was a betrayal of Communist ideals.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago (2 children)

@Cowbee
2. The concept of the "withering away of the state" in Marxism refers to the gradual dissolution of state institutions as class distinctions disappear and society transitions to communism. It does not necessarily require global socialism to be achieved first, and the expansion of state power and repression under regimes like the Soviet Union contradicted this principle.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

It necessitates global Socialism to be achieved, as Capitalism stands against Socialism. The military cannot be done away with as long as there is Capitalism. Moving into Comminism without completing the negation of the negation, in dialectical-speak, is a mechanical transition that leaves the Socialist state open to invasion and plundering.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 9 months ago (3 children)

@Cowbee
3. While it may be true that the Soviet government provided safety nets and controlled wages, the persistence of wage labor and currency contradicted the goal of achieving a moneyless and classless society under socialism. The gradual elimination of money and wage labor was indeed a complex process, but the Soviet Union did not achieve this goal.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago

The persistance of money and wages did not stand against the progress of Socialism. Again, Capitalist profit was eliminated, the state directed the products of labor, not Capitalists. Marx was not an Anarchist, he did not believe money could be done away with immediately. The USSR attempted to do away with Money, but were not yet developed enough to handle it.

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