this post was submitted on 08 Apr 2024
417 points (89.4% liked)

Solarpunk

5259 readers
25 users here now

The space to discuss Solarpunk itself and Solarpunk related stuff that doesn't fit elsewhere.

What is Solarpunk?

Join our chat: Movim or XMPP client.

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS
 

Listening to a recent episode of the Solarpunk Presents podcast reminded me the importance of consistently calling out cryptocurrency as a wasteful scam. The podcast hosts fail to do that, and because bad actors will continue to try to push crypto, we must condemn it with equal persistence.

Solarpunks must be skeptical of anyone saying it’s important to buy something, like a Tesla, or buy in, with cryptocurrency. Capitalists want nothing more than to co-opt radical movements, neutralizing them, to sell products.

People shilling crypto will tell you it decentralizes power. So that’s a lie, but solarpunks who believe it may be fooled into investing in this Ponzi scheme that burns more energy than some countries. Crypto will centralize power in billionaires, increasing their wealth and decreasing their accountability. That’s why Space Karen Elon Musk pushes crypto. The freer the market, the faster it devolves to monopoly. Rather than decentralizing anything, crypto would steer us toward a Bladerunner dystopia with its all-powerful Tyrell corporation.

Promoting crypto on a solarpunk podcast would be unforgivable. That’s not quite what happens on S5E1 “Let’s Talk Tech.” The hosts seem to understand crypto has no part in a solarpunk future or its prefigurative present. But they don’t come out and say that, adopting a tone of impartiality. At best, I would call this disingenuous. And it reeks of the both-sides-ism that corporate media used to paralyze climate action discourse for decades.

Crypto is not “appropriate tech,” and discussing it without any clarity is inappropriate.

Update for episode 5.3: In a case of hyper hypocrisy, they caution against accepting superficial solutions---things that appear utopian but really reinforce inequality and accelerate the climate crisis---while doing exactly that by talking up cryptocurrency.

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[–] [email protected] 16 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I don't see where this post did that, though? It criticises crypto for failing to solve the problems it claims to solve and for adding additional problems on top, not for trying to address things that aren't problems

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

It’s just the vibes i get after seeing the 30th mini essay with the same exact content as this, in which nobody ever actually acknowledges any of those problems as being real nor ever proposes a better idea. I guess it literally doesn’t try to convince me they aren’t real problems, but you sure can’t conclude from anything the author has written that they think they are real problems.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I'm pretty sure that nobody describes something as "a Bladerunner dystopia with its all-powerful Tyrell corporation" in a positive way

[–] [email protected] -1 points 4 months ago (1 children)

I’m a little confused by your response. What gave you the impression that I thought there was anything positive about what the author wrote?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I'm responding to the part of your comment that says "you sure can’t conclude from anything the author has written that they think they are real problems." I mean that the author describes the extreme centralisation of power in currency in that manner; crypto is criticised for accelerating us towards that, but it's clear that OP regards that situation as bad regardless of whether or not we end up in it via crypto. Sorry if my own comment was unclear.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

Actually if you just take what they’re saying at face value and don’t make any assumptions or inferences about what they must believe, all you can conclude is that they don’t believe that we’re currently under the control of a Tyrell-esque corporation, and that it’s going to be cryptocurrency that gets us there. But personally I think that’s highly naïve and I do think we’re currently living in a global financial system which might as well be controlled by the Tyrell corporation

[–] [email protected] 3 points 4 months ago (1 children)

They don't have to believe that we're currently living in such a situation to believe that it would be bad whether crypto put us in it or not. I think you're making more assumptions about their beliefs than you're stating, here.

Personally I agree that we're not in a position as extreme as that at the moment, because the ultimate powers over currencies are governments rather than corporations. Now, how much of a difference that makes absolutely depends on how democratically accountable the given government is to the populace, but for corporations it's always zero accountability to anyone but shareholders, so there is definitely room for difference. And, of course, just because things can technically be worse doesn't mean there are no problems with how things currently are.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

They don’t have to believe that we’re currently living in such a situation to believe that it would be bad whether crypto put us in it or not. I think you’re making more assumptions about their beliefs than you’re stating, here.

I never said how they felt about the current situation. I literally said I can’t conclude from their words. and you can’t as evidenced by the fact that you’re telling me all of the possibilities right now.

because the ultimate powers over currencies are governments rather than corporations.

And I honestly think this is an extremely naïve thing to believe.

And lastly I’m not gonna engage with literally anything that takes for granted the idea that I support cryptocurrency because it isn’t true, so let me just make it really clear: I do not support cryptocurrency

[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago) (1 children)

I think that the references to billionaires and capitalism as negatives and the simple fact that they posted it to a solarpunk community make how OP feels pretty clear, but I don't think we're going to find much common ground here

I'm confused about where that last paragraph came from? The only thing I've said about you is that I think you're making more assumptions about OP than you are letting on

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I don’t understand why I wrote that either looking back at your comment. I apologize for it.

as for a common ground: I feel like you’re saying these things because you think that I believe that this person doesn’t feel that way. The truth is I would be surprised if they didn’t feel that way, for all of the reasons you’re saying. I’m literally just saying that nothing they write establishes with 100% certainty how they feel about the global financial system. Like you literally can only conclude that if you’re willing to make assumptions about what it must mean to post this in solarpunk, what it must mean to be critical of billionaires etc.

And you also need to consider that not everyone even understands all of those things. people come here from all sorts of corners of this little fediverse, you need to consider how they’ll perceive this too if you actually want to steer people away from it. Would they be wrong for failing to connect all those dots if they were never exposed to them before?