1
Are Dannish people aware of how popular Socialdemokratiet party is among Polish people in Poland?
(leddit.danmark.party)
this post was submitted on 24 Mar 2024
1 points (100.0% liked)
/r/Denmark
153 readers
1 users here now
GÅ TIL FEDDIT.DK
Kommentarerne du skriver her sendes ikke tilbage til Reddit.
founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
mikk0384 at 2024-03-24 12:35:15+00:00 ID:
kwbxgejCompared to the rest of the world, even our right wing parties are leaning left.
DumtDoven at 2024-03-24 12:51:13+00:00 ID:
kwbzc12Compared to our own history, even our left wing parties are leaning right.
IshayuG at 2024-03-24 13:29:14+00:00 ID:
kwc43acOnly if you look at the 60's and 70's, which was Socialdemokratiet's old policy in full flower, and it nearly bankrupted the country.
I'm very glad they moderated themselves a bit. Denmark still has the 2nd highest tax revenue as a percentage of GDP in the world, exceeded only by France. To call Denmark right-leaning is absolutely insane.
quantum-fitness at 2024-03-24 14:29:48+00:00 ID:
kwccnrnOnly if tax is the only parameter you measure politcal leaning on and you real tax is a hard thing to actually measure. All tax in denmark is just explicit.
IshayuG at 2024-03-24 15:14:34+00:00 ID:
kwcjmu4We're also near the top on government spending per GDP. The only countries that are above us are countries who are living massively beyond their means or are getting subsidies such as Ukraine or Kiribati, plus a few of the usual suspects like Sweden and France that actually have a government our size.
We are one of the only countries with massive public spending without a massive deficit to along with it.
So some of the highest tax per GDP and some of the highest public spending per GDP at the same time, and this is because "we're not hiding it"? What, you mean like other countries don't write their taxes on people's payslips or something?
I've heard this story before - something like "Oh but in the US you don't pay taxes if you're a government employee because it was state money to begin with" and this kind of nonsense. It's all false - our taxes are just very high and we have a very large public sector. Half of the Danish economy is in the public sector, that's massive.
But it's never enough for the left. Tax us more, decide what we should do with our money. Blergh. The taxes are just high - don't piss on me and tell me it's raining. I won't fall for this nonsense, cope harder.
quantum-fitness at 2024-03-24 17:25:54+00:00 ID:
kwd5bo6Yes we have one of the highest tax rates in the world. But we have relativly non-meddeling government which i also one of the most efficient ones. We also have a very strong private sector and have privatized pretty much all the public monopolies, maybe other than some parts of the health sector. Pensions are also privatised etc.
Then when we talk about tax rates. One thing you pointed out is the deficit. We actually unlike most have a responsible fiscal policy. The US ran a 8% deficit last I checked. That is also a type of tax, its just in the future and you cant measure as well.
Then there is all the other things. We have a very transparent tax code or at least its calculated for you as a private person, hence why you only need an account if you own a business.
Which is why we need to talk about real tax. You cant talk about the tax you are forced to pay to the state which is very high in denmark. But to make a real comparison you have to include all the things you are forced to pay. Which is what makes the calculation impossible.
In denmark your tax include healthcare, pension etc. You still need to pay for those things in other cuntries. So a real comparison is tallying all those things up or else you are comparing oranges and apples.
Im not a fan of tax just to be clear, but for meaningful debate we have to be honest. Denmarks state works because of all the pro-private sector and business things etc. we have done since the socialdemcrats bankrupted us in the 70s and 80s.
Jakutsk at 2024-03-24 18:06:18+00:00 ID:
kwdc9mwFirst time I hear someone say this and I've spoken to countless Danes. Source for this claim?
IshayuG at 2024-03-24 21:04:14+00:00 ID:
kwe62lsAny history book practically. Danmarkshistorien and Lex both have some of it.
During the 1960's and early 1970's there was a boom in the economy and especially construction, and then the oil crisis hit. The left took power and started to really build the welfare state, creating the massive government we have today that is responsible for helping the citizen from crib to grave.
The 1970's and 1980's got increasingly awful as a result of the massive government spending that had built up in combination with multiple international disasters such as the oil crisis and the Reagan depression, ultimately culminating in "kartoffelkuren" where private citizens were told directly to stop spending. There was even a law at one point which made driving illegal on Sundays. Taxes went way up.
Since that time we've been slowly chipping away at the welfare state that was built up. Schools have larger classes, university is being cut shorter, SU is decreasing (not being adjusted for inflation), the amount of hospitals has gone down quite drastically, the companies that write most government software is privatised and for hire, and on and on it goes. And even with all that it's still very expensive, as I have pointed out.
quantum-fitness at 2024-03-25 08:32:29+00:00 ID:
kwgjwvgThe other comment also miss other things. The socialdemocrats used to be much more socialist. So part if their goal was full employment, like the one the Soviet union. At the time we had what was called "dyrtidsregulering" this ment that public sector wages and social benefits like welfare would be regulated with inflation.
Full imployment in a free market with competition happens to create inflation because there are a supply side problem in people to employ. This then caused peoples wages to increase. Which ment people had to increase prices and so on.
This caused inflation hell.
IshayuG at 2024-03-24 21:10:18+00:00 ID:
kwe72p0Much of what you say is true, but it doesn't change that we have very high taxation, and frankly many of the services I get from the government are rather dysfunctional. Some work fine, others definitely not.
HA! It's so bloody complicated it practically cannot be implemented. I have not been directly involved with it, but I know people who were, and I also wrote some of the software that provides the information. I can be credited on the new BBR, DAR, EJF, some of MAT, as well as PLANDATA. It's unimaginably complicated. If we weren't calculating it for you you'd never figure it out on your own, even if you were one of the people who wrote the software to do it. xD
"Done for you" != transparent.
quantum-fitness at 2024-03-25 08:22:30+00:00 ID:
kwgj6f1I fully agree. Im personally with Anders here on the "minimal stat" train. But we have something that works much better than almost all other places. We somewhat know what we waste money on.
Unlike meme libertarian places like the US where things like college and healthcare etc. is in the wierd place between free market, monopoly and public sector that gives you the worst of all worlds.
I mean Ive written my share of complex software. But I guess your right.
IshayuG at 2024-03-25 08:46:24+00:00 ID:
kwgkycmThat's absolutely true, and I especially agree on college and healthcare. I'm not in the camp which thinks the state does a great job necessarily, but one thing I will say is that anything is better than what's going on in the US. It's some kind of crazy racket where everything is increased 20 fold in price at the hospital and then you have to buy insurance for "a better deal that's been negotiated".
Meanwhile, university tuition fees have gone completely insane, and the more the students can burrow and the more debt is forgiven, the worse it gets.
Now, keeping the private system and legislating these things out of existence should be simple. Prices you get should be equal to what the insurance has to pay on your behalf, and pretty much all of this is cleaned right up.
The loans should be much smaller - students want them larger but it just means bigger debt by the end, it doesn't actually make it easier to survive. Either that, or the loans regulate how big your tuition fee can be as a percentage of the loan, just like it is in Denmark where you have a minimum living expenses from the bank and if you want a loan it can't put you in a situation where you don't have that. I think it's 6000kr per person in the household at Danske Bank but that's a bit high for a student - but they could figure something out.
But despite being so simple it isn't being done, and I can only surmise it's because of massive corruption.
It's all complete bullshit and people are really having their lives ruined in a big way.
Haildrop at 2024-03-25 09:51:15+00:00 ID:
kwgq1xhWont be for long when you dismantle the welfare state brick by brick, day by day
manfredmannclan at 2024-03-24 17:36:14+00:00 ID:
kwd73bnI guess monarchy is left wing by the definition that the state has all the power. But its quite a stretch..
DumtDoven at 2024-03-24 22:05:25+00:00 ID:
kweg4oyYou're reaching, you know very well that i'm talking 50 not 150 years.
manfredmannclan at 2024-03-25 04:59:14+00:00 ID:
kwg2ct4Thats a very short history
DumtDoven at 2024-03-25 08:13:24+00:00 ID:
kwgihngA weirder story would be comparing our politics now to that of our old dictator.
manfredmannclan at 2024-03-25 08:35:51+00:00 ID:
kwgk63cYou said historically. How am i supposed to know that you where talking about a 20/1024 part of it.
DumtDoven at 2024-03-25 08:40:26+00:00 ID:
kwgkib9Would be weird to bring our king into a discussion of Danish politics. Not doing that is the standard in such cases.
quantum-fitness at 2024-03-24 14:25:39+00:00 ID:
kwcc1bbI hate this meme. Its not true. We have a high explicit tax in denmark, yes. But we are also a low rules society which is not really a left-wing thing.
Danishmeat at 2024-03-24 15:44:21+00:00 ID:
kwcoep3It depends on which rules.
Dona_Lupo at 2024-03-24 17:07:22+00:00 ID:
kwd2619And which left wing.