teuniac_

I think it's easier to mess up a vegan diet than a keto one.

People often worry more about vegan diets than other diets. But somehow people's concerns aren't proportional to the risk of messing up your nutrition needs.

It's not about health risks; it's more about their personal feelings. Most people don't like that animals are killed for food, but giving up tasty meat and cheese is tough. Instead of supporting vegans, they question them. This might be because admitting they eat meat just for its taste feels wrong. So, they deflect by questioning veganism. It'd be great if there were more understanding and supportive and less defensiveness about food choices.

I'd be nice to occasionally hear "Good for you! I'm happy that you make choices that are in line with your values!" But alas, most responses tend to be "But aren't you barely allowed to eat anything now!?"

So much time and effort online and on TV is expended arguing against eating plant based food. It's hard not to see through this.

people without any guns

A mob stormed and airports in Russia. Americans may see Europe as an exotic place, but mobs storming airports is pretty rare here.

So are mass shootings. While they happen, they're very rare.

I never really understand why people find it so entertaining to make fun of vegetarians and vegans.

Their choice results in less suffering, plain and simple. Maybe you aren't willing to change your diet, that's your decision. But if others are willing to put effort into changing their diets and become vegetarian because it's in line with their values, that's admirable and should be applauded.

Please don't make fun of people who put time and energy into pursuing their values. Not if you don't see yourself as a bully.

If someone is offended by this joke, maybe that's a sign that they're uncomfortable with the modern mass production of meat in general, and they'd be more comfortable within themselves if they ate less meat.

Yes. It's not possible to respect these lambs or consider yourself a friend to animals while looking forward to eating them. Not without playing tricks on your mind. The definitions of friend and respect simply don't allow for simultaneously accepting a cruel fate.

I am vegetarian (and striving to make more vegan choices day by day)

♥️

Walked the same path. Vegan for just over a year now and no regrets. The benefits outweigh the downsides.

Sorry maybe I sounded a bit harsh. I think we're on line here, but to be sure. I mean that the average voting age in 2006 could be an interesting detail when doing an analysis of the origins the current situation. So would other themes that played a role in the campaign before the election. I remember reading about this that the corruption of the alternative parties was an issue for voters too.

But when it comes to justifying huge numbers of civilian casualties, it's a pretty well established principle that civilians can never directly be held accountable with violence for the actions of their government. So that means that we don't need to engage with arguments about whether voters knew what they were getting into or any specifics about the election. Because doing so would be giving in to your opponent (in a hypothetical debate) and you'd be undermining your own position.

Maybe my points have the same problem. But since people who support the bombings don't seem to care about international law, I felt like these were a good second line of defence.

I wrote this on Reddit to argue against someone who suggested that Israel's response is justified, given that Hamas won an election. Here's what I responded:

There are several significant issues with your reasoning:

1. Voting has never implied being responsible for the crimes of your government.
2. There have not been elections since 2006. The Gaza Strip does not have a democratic system. This further challenges the argument that the population should pay some kind of price.
3. Hamas won the elections by taking 74 of the 132 seats in parliament. This means that 60 seats were for non-hamas participants of these elections. Consequently, many people who are trapped in Gaza and want nothing to do with Hamas are being punished/killed.
4. About 50% of the Gaza population is under 15 years of age. Attacking Gaza in this way should never have been on the table given these demographics.

In other words, the average voting age isn't too relevant.

Shared first 🥇 with real meat products.

Still rocking a higher life expectancy though, vegans got that going for them.

The Gaza civilians voted Hamas into power.

Still civilians though. And, not all of them did. All in all it's madness to equate the entire Gaza population with the perpetrators the way that Israel is currently doing.

To be fair, extremism flourishes when conditions are bad. Hamas is potentially a product of these conditions, or at least partially. If both peoples would be afforded better conditions, they might seem less incompatible than the two groups seem at the moment.

About time the Palestian issue is put back on the agenda. Strangely enough, Israel is doing everything they can it seems to make that happen.

What do you think raping and massacring people at a music festival is going to do?

Nothing, just cause more suffering. But this isn't a bad guy vs good guy argument. The point that's being made is that extremism tends to be a product of its environment.

Please note that this is not an anti-Israel line of arguing.

Conditions in Gaza are terrible and many people have lost loved ones during their lives there. It creates an environment where extremism can flourish. It's not a certainty, but the probability is just much higher in environments that are severely deprived.

The actions of Hamas are inexcusable, and Israel will surely want to bring them to justice. But after that it's time to acknowledge that if conditions in Gaza are kept as poor as they are, the chances of this type of violence happening again are almost guaranteed. It's also in the interest of Israel to allow and facilitate improved conditions in Gaza.

Such an enlightening argument.

I guess then it was an excellent idea to shoot up a music festival.

/s

I am sorry you lost several loved ones. I can't imagine what that must be like.

Hopefully, while grieving, you won't be stuck in anger for much longer. The people that you have lost wouldn't want children to pay the price for your country's revenge.

Of course you want Hamas to be brought to justice, but there are many people like you and I in Gaza that are just trying to live a life free of violence. Hamas might kill indiscriminately, but they are a terrorist/radical group. A country must not sink to their level, especially a democratic one.

Nothing will make it easier for Hamas to find new recruits than large numbers of people in Gaza who are grieving their lost ones: and so the cycle of violence continues.