jack

A more restrictive approach seems like a massive mistake while the Lemmy community landscape is still in its infancy.

With that in mind, Option 2 seems to offer the best flexibility for this community moving forward and best cross-pollination potential for Lemmy as a whole.

@Difficult_[email protected] - I read your post in the "beehaw user's thread" and had some clarifying questions for the tally:

• Does your tally exclude any votes that have already been removed by a moderator?
• Why have some non-local votes been removed, while others remain?
• Does non-local solely indicate accounts not on this instance, or does it include sock puppets of the same? What is the full list of criteria used to determine this?
• Are there any other criteria you are using to exclude votes?

I'm specifically asking because I've been trying to follow along and audit the current vote, but my tally isn't copacetic with yours. I assume I'm working with imperfect information, so I think it would be worth adding this level of clarity on voting qualifications to the Agora sidebar as well. A true democracy should be well codified; It would be a shame for the disparity to be down to me missing one buried comment somewhere.

Thanks for the work you've been doing here.

According to the pinned post, votes go up on Friday and stay up until the following Friday. The same post also indicates these procedures are by no means final.

I agree that it's clear what the community wants, just call it at this point. A week long vote might be suited to policy changes, but I'm starting to get the feeling that defederation of specific instances should be done quickly - informed by existing policy rather than popular vote. None of us really want to fuck around with bigots and trolls any longer than we have to.

In this case, I would personally advocate for something like this line of reasoning: "the users on this instance have a clear pattern of violating our instance's first two rules and the administration isn't acting to remedy it, therefore we defederate effective immediately".

I do want to echo what @sorrybookbroke is saying, please give the admin team some credit, they are putting in a serious amount of manual mod work. It's apparent to all of us that the policies still have a ways to go, but it takes time to build a community.

I'm not an admin, so I'm partially paraphrasing and partially speculating, but my understanding is that we're still in the whack-a-mole phase of lemmy moderation due to the immaturity of the platform and the tooling surrounding it. sh.itjust.works and lemmy.world were the most visible issues because they grew VERY quickly and have no barriers to registration - they became big enough and some users problematic enough to warrant a full, well-articulated post from the Beehaw admins regarding the defederation.

Take a look at the massive list of blocked instances on beehaw.org/instances and you'll see that the level of care and attention regarding this specific defederation makes this situation fairly unique. Smaller instances probably just get banned near immediately. Sucks that the end result is for us to be lumped in with racists and the like, but it looks like all involved parties expect this to be resolved eventually.

Like I said, it's just a matter of tooling. Our admins are doing an excellent job, considering. I know this because I watch the bullshit I report get dealt with in near real time. I don't envy the work they're putting in.

Goddamn I missed seeing your comments. Welcome home, king.

Please explain the point you're making.

You have not demonstrated this to be true.

I did list them in my comment, I spent time to try to engage with you and it's clear you either didn't read it or didn't understand it. That's a shame.

If you're going to laser focus on only one aspect of voting, you do us all a disservice with your suggestions to improve. There's more to a solid voting system than unique IP.

Your poll means nothing. It's a mistake to try to use it as a guidepost for how to run a lemmy instance. The low engagement isn't the slam dunk you seem to believe it is.

This is an interesting topic, I would like to discuss further.

Locking down votes to accounts on the instance is important - the current system of Aye/Nay comments natively beats strawpoll on that account.

Since this instance is anonymous, having some amount of accountability to other users is also important. Even I can go through and at least audit comments to be sure they're on the instance and active users. This is another point where, again, strawpoll falls short.

I agree the system isn't perfect, but IP locking is also an imperfect solution. There are absolutely VPN solutions that will beat strawpoll's VPN identification, and there very well could be legitimate votes that would share public IP addresses, especially as the instance grows. I think I'm unconvinced that ensuring unique IP is vastly more important than the benefits the current system provides.

All that said, I don't know what a perfect solution would look like, but I would expect it to address ALL of these points (deep integration with lemmy, user auditability, and basic protection from fraudulent votes). I'm honestly curious what your thoughts are here - do you have a more comprehensive proposal to address my above concerns?

I just switched from Jerboa to Connect and have ~~no~~ few regrets so far. Still feels like the wild west out here.

Can't wait for Sync though!

EDIT: I do have at least one regret, no easy way to report comments on Connect, AFAICT. Guess I need to keep exploring my options.

It's just down to Lemmy not having good enough mod tools yet. Beehaw is a carefully curated walled garden instance that hosts some high quality communities; they are availing themselves of the only real tool they have to curb an influx of bad actors from other instances.

Here's hoping its temporary. The admin team here at sh.itjust.works clearly operates in good faith.

Thanks for the tip, this actually looks pretty decent! Not a huge fan of the iOS theme, but it works pretty damn well otherwise.