OpenStars

joined 5 days ago
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

No, it's really not - see e.g. https://youtu.be/BFSe5-i1LoU and actually I cannot recommend that entire channel highly enough, it is amazing! It is like a mini college course in the subject, and describes how the Alt-Right movement in America (following patterns used in Russia for years) resorts to many tactics that are low-effort and literally designed to waste the time of the responder.

Imagine you had a PhD, specifically in vaccines, and you were arguing with a 2-year-old who no matter what you said then responded with "nuh-uh", and occasionally threw in zingers at the level of "I know you are but what am I?!"

It is not important to refute the bullshit of people refusing to engage in good faith, and in actual fact it is precisely the opposite: by giving them the opportunity to continue forward you are merely playing into their game.

Maybe you pick your battles I'm not suggesting otherwise, just that in general I find it best to not engage with trolls. I tried that on Reddit, as a mod of two small gaming subs, and I learned my lesson: it was me who was changed, not them. Until I decided to leave Reddit entirely, regardless of whether I came here or not.

And now that I'm here, forewarned is forearmed, and I'm not enjoying having to go through that fight yet again, but it must be done by the only way is forward... towards whatever goal I choose, and for the I choose happiness rather than continually hitting my head against a brick wall:-).

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago (1 children)

Day 1 users aren't taught who and how to block people. Instead, my personal friends have blocked Lemmy entirely. They are happy with the likes of Reddit, which tbf does have more support for niche issues, as this whole thread is discussing.

It is a difficult problem to entangle: how to compete with Reddit, and what specific steps we could do to help. One way that I was suggesting is to better separate the "I hate the Western world" posts from... you know, the places that said posts are talking about. Bc while it is most definitely possible for someone to curate their personal experience on the Fediverse (especially those who use Arch btw, or at least are okay with popping open and editing a config file somewhere), it would sure be more welcoming to particularly normies if that wasn't mandatory right out of the gate?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

First, I hope nobody is taking any of this personally. We were talking here about how to reach out to normies, and whatever best way there is to do that.

Second, you misread my comment. It is true that MANY instances are having issues with Lemmy.World. My own comment here said "from StarTrek.website" (to be most clear I mean https://startrek.website/c/[email protected] ), which itself is a different instance than PieFed.social, so I experienced these federation issues multiple times this very week, from two distinct places - i.e. I'm not continuously bringing up the same issue, I'm adding new ones to the pile, to show that it's not just PieFed's fault. And I don't think I mentioned here yet that those issues also affected https://discuss.online/c/[email protected] - after a day or two the latter started to catch up but it was still ~~a day~~ behind lemmy.world. That's 3 instances all struggling to receive that same content, none fully succeeding (at the time).

If anything it's Lemmy.world's "fault" but only in the diagnostic sense of being centrally positioned in this debacle rather than blame being a "responsible" party to have caused it or being able to fix it. Though fortunately, 0.19.6 should help provide a fix for exactly this, and the Lemmy devs are currently doing their due diligence to test it out before deployment to the entire world:-).

And I am far from the only one mentioning such - here's one example and here's another. Also, the issue with my personal post was just a few days ago, so even if these federation issues are intermittent they are still ongoing, and seem like they will continue until such time as Lemmy.world finishes its update process to 0.19.6.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago

The PieFed admins are super responsive. I've enjoyed every conversation with them I've had so far.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago* (last edited 4 hours ago) (3 children)

Right, and for people who want that low defederation, lemm.ee is not just a good but a great option. Though for normies, it may be turning people away.

But as you said, what other options are there? Lemmy.cafe seems so perfect in so many ways. Like their welcome messages are actually helpful, e.g. pointing people to [email protected], as opposed to e.g. "What is Lemmy.ml" that is just a broken link to nowhere, or Lemmy.World's Getting started guide that doesn't mention things such as cross-posting. But then again, normies especially wouldn't like it when/if the instance suddenly has to shut down for whatever reason... I get you there.

So who else defederates from the entirety of the big 3? (Btw lemmy.cafe defederates from almost nothing but these, and threads ofc, so still has e.g. NSFW and anime instances linked. And quokk.au likewise has only a single admin.) Or better yet allows custom user blocking? PieFed does, Tesseract on dubvee.org, and perhaps some apps (not sure which ones - and the trick is that some appear to at first glance, but it's merely the same Lemmy back-end blocking that doesn't block users, only communities). And I'm not clear about Mbin - I think not.

Moreover, nearly every instance other than Lemmy.world is having federation issues with lemmy.world right now. But we can't just keep sending people to lemmy.world bc it's the only one that always works for >80% of the content on the Fediverse? That would somewhat work, but be a purely short-term solution. Yet nothing else would work... e.g. I made a post from StarTrek.website to tenforward on lemmy.world and couldn't see the comments (or votes) that people made to it for at least 2-3 days. Eventually I responded from a third instance involved - discuss.online - but federation issues such as this tend to have a cooling effect in terms of shutting down conversations. This stuff is going to turn normies away as well, on top of the toxicity issues.

So there are problems with every instance. At least you get your choice of which issues you want to deal with:-). The toxicity issue though is particularly what has driven away 100% of the people that I've mentioned Lemmy to irl, so it seems to be the major one. Perhaps if not for it they might have joined Lemmy and then left it later, but as it is they refuse to even consider it bc they can't get past that. So THAT is the one that I think we need to focus on to get more people. At which point yeah, perhaps add Lemmy.cafe to the recommendation list? Alongside PieFed that allows custom user blocking of whatever instance you want - and I mean the good kind, blocking not just communities but all comments as well.

Perhaps the reason that people are mentioning the defederation issues is due to Mastodon's heavy fragmention and inability to really search for content outside of someone's initial chosen instance? (Though that feature seems to be coming "soon(TM)".) If so that would make a LOT of sense?! However, the difficulties faced by Lemmy are of a different sort. Not being able to search for content from any other instance is nowhere near the same as e.g. the Western world defederating from an instance that constantly mocks and disrespects everything that it does - and kinda vice versa btw bc there is much that the Western world does not respect about how the Eastern world (specifically Russia and China) does things as well, e.g. the extremely heavy-handed banning from all communities, and how the East is "not" doing genocide, fully and literally directly, even while the USA "is" (I mean it low-key is, but how does that justify the Ukrainian invasion or the Uyghur situation?!) - the whole "one rule for thee, an entirely different set of rules for me" thing is a real turn-off for people to remain in the Fediverse. So while I don't doubt that people are asking for instances that aren't defederated from anything, I do question whether that's truly what they want, especially "they" meaning the majority of normies. It's complicated bc some truly do want something like lemm.ee, while on the other hand I see some people leaving Lemm.ee wanting to go somewhere that defederates from at the very least Hexbear. It's one thing to foster and encourage STRONG diversity of opinions, but it's another to open the door to people who consistently argue in bad faith (and rarely if ever do not do such). The former makes dull conversations better, while the latter ends conversations entirely.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 4 hours ago

There is so much to enjoy about the Fediverse, so many flavors of variety to experience and get to choose from!:-)

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

Star Trek always had the best hats. Unless you were Michael Dorn and then the costume staff seemed to have a grudge against him or sumthin'.

img

Edit: bonus

img

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 hours ago

Tbh, no I don't recall it!? :-P All I got is this oldie...

img

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 hours ago

B-b-but sometimes you just get the munchies and gotta have ~~that~~ all the omletes, ya'know!!?!!

img

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 hours ago

Just look what the tribbles have done to this poor, poor man!? Well, I guess he's rich in tribbles:-).

img

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 hours ago

Just don't get

img

in it!:-)

 

I gather that it had a use unrelated to Lemmy but for Lemmy posts I make a case here that it is more misleading than helpful. For a moment, please ignore the underlying reasons why things are the way they are and focus on how the issue presents to the end-users.

(1) By pulling in solely the post, but not any of the comments, it at best provides only partial information - which if all you wanted to read was the post, then why bother pulling it here at all? (as opposed to retrieving from its original location - I mean, to do it you already need the full URL...) While if instead you wanted all of the comments... - e.g. to be able to reply to - then too bad, b/c it won't do that?

(2) It also does not pull in any of the old vote counts. So if hypothetically a post had 1000 upvotes, and then after pulling it here it received adjustments +2 from upvotes and -4 from downvotes, then its total would then be 998, right? Except PieFed would instead display "-2", a qualitatively different score for a highly popular post that is a terrible misrepresentation of the actual facts about it.

(3) It conveys a distorted view of things to the end-users. e.g. see [email protected] where there are 6 posts from the last 2 months, right? Right?! No, there is actually only a single post there in its entirety, then a few more that I and what I assume was Blaze pulled in - note how those other 5 have zero comments, and total scores near zero, due to the aforementioned issues. Really the "earliest" post that PieFed.social reliably has from that community is from 4 days ago, and then beyond that is a scattered, partial mess. There are actually MANY more posts from the last two months, which are not represented here. Ergo, the initial impression that a quick glance at this community offers turns out to be false, due to these federation issues.

(4) showing only partial information is often called a "false positive" or type I style of error, whereas showing nothing at all for those posts that are not fully here avoids that pitfall. If certain content is not here then... well it is not here, and that's that, but for only some of it to be here leads to much confusion, imho.

Almost entirely distinct from this issue, the ability to find an existing post given its URL should be added to the search menu, b/c that is where people will go to find it. But ofc all the more so if the retrieval button is removed or made less prominent, so that that find ability is not lost along with that.

I understand that there are hard limitations of the federated model itself. So if e.g. older comments and votes cannot retroactively be pulled in - or possibly even if so - then maybe this function should just be abolished? Or perhaps a couple more layers of "are you sure you want to do this?" added, or better yet moving it from its prominent place showing up to everyone on almost every page to a more subdued location where only those who know what it is and what will happen if it is used are likely to access it? I now feel that I actively made the situation in [email protected] worse by pulling in those posts, and wished now that I hadn't done so, as it could lead people astray into thinking "this is all the posts that the community has to offer from this time-period" (NO, it actually has MANY MANY more than that, on the original server!?!!). Now that I know this I can refrain from using it, but it would be nice to help others who climb this ladder after me as well:-). So I am sharing my thoughts with you in case that helps.

PieFed is freaking awesome and you all who work on it are magnificently extraordinary to share your knowledge with the world:-).

 

See e.g. https://piefed.social/communities?search=forward - there are 2 communities listed there, both go to the same place if you click them, and that place has no posts from the last 3 days.

It almost looks like the existence of the second version of that community - changed mere seconds ago at the time of my writing this, except again, when you click the link it doesn't show anything new for several days - is soaking up all the new posts, but since it is inaccessible by the normal means those new entities cannot be accessed.

This is my favorite spot in the Fediverse, so I hope it is addressed soon! That community in particular is doing great work to make the Fediverse fun & welcoming to come to by all us nerds:-).

103
Coming... (efangelist.wordpress.com)
 
65
Coming... (efangelist.wordpress.com)
 
view more: next ›