this post was submitted on 14 Jun 2023
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Fuck Cars

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (3 children)

Sigh...I own an EV and I will tell you that my reasons for buying it are less environmental and more practical. Not having to go to a gas station (charge at home) or how I literally have way more power than I need or that it's just fun to drive. You can shit on EVs, but in all reality they are a superior car if you don't get hung up on the fuel. I want to be better about the environment, but honestly, my EV is hands down my all time favorite car (and it's not a Tesla). So before you mock em, go test drive a few.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

A "superior car" is still a fucking car

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Yeah, try living anywhere in the US outside NY, Boston, and a few other places. Most city planning outside Europe and Asia assumes a car. Unlike parts of Copenhagen, where you can literally get everything you need, unless you live in NYC (and cities like it) you have to have a car.

So yes, I would love to be able to go anywhere via public transit and I would love to not own a cat. But for most of the world it just is a pipe dream.

IMO, we need to focus on harm reduction. Cars are bad. But EVs are slightly better when public transit is non-existent. Taking an all or non position is one from privilege or life style or environment. Cars are a tool. And while expensive and an obsene waste of resources, the infrastructure and housing to have the mass of society in cities does not exist. If I lived where cars could be an option I would totally not have one.

My point is that EVS are better than ICE. They certainly have their environmental problems but on whole, they are better and safer than ICE. An all or non position is nonsense and denies the reality we live in.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

I personally have nothing against the concept of a 'car'. They're the ultimate freedom¹ vehicle that appeal to the anarchist in me; in the sense that you have this mobile device that takes you pretty much anywhere at incredible speed and luxury (radio, heating, cooling, reclinable bed) that is a pinnacle of over a hundred years of engineering.

I do have an axe to grind with cities built around cars. Cities are where people come together to converse, play, trade, and live. They greatly appeal to the communist in me, where people build sustainable democratic communities that thrive on the fruits of everyone's labours. Cars compromise the safety and tranquility of this ideal, and I wish cars were just used outside of cities to get from one town or village to another. Then you go park them outside the city, and walk/cycle/tram to where you want to go in the city.

1: No I'm not a flag waving nut, nor am I american

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

They are better than a gas car in almost every sense. Except those giant SUV or pickup truck options. Those cars still don't have a real place in a city. But reasonably-sized electric cars are absolutely perfect for commuters that have no real option but driving.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (4 children)

As much as I hate cars, removing them is only possible inside cities. North America has a very large rural area(and population) that needs to be converted away from fossil fuels.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Maybe yes, but a large part of society at least in America and Europe live in cities or suburbs, where cars are just bs

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I completely agree with you on that one. Unfortunately I'm one of those rural people.

I'm banking on autonomous busing in hopes that we can eventually drop to one vehicle, we already have bus service but it's only 1/hour to the nearest little town, and only 3/day to the nearest city(commuting busses @ $20 round trip per day)

We did buy an EV though for cost and environmental reasons (I live somewhere with a 99% clean grid)

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

North America has a large suburban population. The rural population is almost entirely dependent on fossil fuels for the near future because of infrastructure scarcity and the energy density of fossil fuels.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Trains are not financially viable for rural areas.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)

Cars are not ecologically viable for life to continue on planet earth

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (2 children)

That's a pretty shit argument. Humans are not ecologically viable for life to continue on planet earth at our current population, even if we remove all cars.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yeah no, that's Malthusian shit you're arguing. It's not equivalent to degrowth

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yea no what? We are already setting population targets via immigration right now, the question is about what the target should be (and why) not whether or not to do it.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

To do what? Limit immigration so that poor ppl from countries we immiserated, exploited, and put in danger of climate collapse from our overconsumption can die? Sounds like nazi shit to me

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[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Yes it is. We hunted multiple animals to extinction and poisoned vast stretches of land long before the industrial revolution, we didn't need cars to be assholes to nature.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

True, but we could sustain a lot more people and also not bring animals to extinction and destroy the environment with the right policies. Blaming overpopulation is just facist propaganda.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The number of people shouting the word fascist around here is hilarious. It's not fascist to limit immigration, it's a policy employed by literally every country in the world.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Limiting migration is one thing (conservative), but blaming anything on overpopulation is another (facist)

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

You are right, but many people use electric cars as an excuse to delay or cancel car-related regulations in cities To the sound of "Why should the city be car-free when electric cars are quiet and don't emit fumes?!", and that's something we have to fight, because in the city there should be no (private) cars needed

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

What about electric buses or trolley buses? Are there also only to save the car industry?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It's not the best solution, but it's better than the internal combustion engine. Obviously bicycles and walking is the ideal solution to transportation short range, while electric or other clean energy options are the way to go for long haul trips of large groups of people and goods.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

Sure they are better, but still cars

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