this post was submitted on 30 Aug 2023
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Men's Liberation

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[–] [email protected] 70 points 1 year ago (2 children)

It's not just men. My mother was pushed down the FaceTube YouBook weaponized disinformation rabbit hole.

It's outrage porn... They LOVE being angry at 'the system' or 'corporations' or 'the WHO' etc. etc.

Yes, there's a lot of stupid corrupt shit going on, but posting on social media is the most impotent thing a person could do to make a difference. (Yes, I appreciate the irony.)

[–] [email protected] 15 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Classic comic that describes this by 'Poorly Drawn Lines'

https://poorlydrawnlines.com/comic/mad/

[–] [email protected] 10 points 1 year ago

Yup, we had a disagreement about the electrical grid, and she insisted that green power would result in province-wide blackouts every night or whenever the wind stopped blowing. I sent her the power generation mix from the Electricity System Operator, showing that renewables accounted for a single-digit percentage point of the generating capacity of the province... Nope, "Why can't you just respect what I believe?" "Because you're full of shit?" click

[–] [email protected] 39 points 1 year ago (4 children)

We need to find a way against algorithms that benefit radicalization.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 1 year ago (2 children)

The only winning move is not to play. Don't use platforms that do this.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That does not solve anything, since people are drawn to platforms with easy accessible content they enjoy. People will use those platforms. The problem is that algorithms will recommend you radicalizing content. And it's an extremely complex task to solve. I would have no idea where to beginn, except better education - but that's something that will take a generation to work out.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

If the system is so fucked that it'd "take a generation to work out", maybe the system isn't worth saving in the first place. We're talking social media websites here, not something like hospitals or schools that are required for a functioning society.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

It took us hundred thousand years to figure out that hitting children as education is bad. We might not be the brightest.

More serious - sure, but it's not that it's easy to get rid of social media. Sure in china you can just forbid them, but they go more the way of using them to spread state propaganda. And in most democracies, people won't support a blanket ban - I wouldn't.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Treat them like cigarettes. Systems designed to amplify "engagement" are rage-farms, and bad for your brain. Limit their marketing, de-platform the companies, and commit to public health measures that educate people on that fact.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Not using the platforms is a personal solution for any individual who wants to escape, not a general solution. For "don't use the platforms" to work as a solution for the masses, so few people would use the platforms that the platforms would cease to exist.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

so few people would use the platforms that the platforms would cease to exist

I'm genuinely failing to see the downside here of facebook, twitter, and the like ceasing to exist.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

I'm genuinely failing to see the downside here of facebook, twitter, and the like ceasing to exist.

Me neither. I should have been clearer. Despite all the bad things they do to make things worse, the problem is not the existence of the platforms. The problem is people. I was alluding to the fact that if there were enough people who recognized the problems of these platforms and acted on that, those kinds of platforms would never have arisen in the first place.

The various nasty types have always found ways to spread their messages, convert people to their cause, and convince others to do the actual dirty work.

Throughout history, every time a technology was introduced to increase the speed and geographical distribution of a message, extremism founded on false conspiracy, propaganda, disinformation, and misinformation has at least temporarily increased. There are really simple explanations for why that is. First, we have the problems of human cognition. Our brains are really lousy at identifying cause and effect, separating meaningful patterns from useless ones, and creating and maintaining accurate memories.

Second, truth requires verification. Verification cannot happen without investigation and communication among investigators. This means that verification will always happen much slower than message distribution. That is why a lie can circle the globe before the truth can get out of the starting blocks.

As bad as these platforms are, it's important to remember that their problematic algorithms are little more than codification of the methods that propagandists have used for centuries. Rush Limbaugh brought these concepts to a peak before most people had ever heard of the internet. Usenet was filled with the same stuff we see on Facebook, and there were no algorithms or central systems, just people doing what people do.

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[–] [email protected] 36 points 1 year ago (6 children)

I think the identity of men is unstable nowdays.

A lot of people don't know what is to be a man today, so they go back to the old ways when it's was simple for then and bad for woman.

The nuances and uncertainty of modern life is too much for some people usually need success model's to follow to feel safe.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

This is a good point with the additional wrinkle that traditional male identity has always been threatened and unstable. By women, by gays, by peace… a core component of the traditional male identity is being under attack (and thus being defensive).

Nothing modern has changed this. The problem is the traditional male identity itself.

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[–] [email protected] 31 points 1 year ago (4 children)

Trump did the same with white American males.

What are the steps are to undo toxic radicalization?

[–] [email protected] 22 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Education, the problem is they don't want to change

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago

Education comes in many forms not just formal

Interacting with a large variety of people can really help to bring them back

But yeah, they have to be willing to change if not then it's going to go poorly

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

Maybe they can get their GED and higher ed while they're in prison for the various crimes they commit.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago

Meaningful connection. A lot of these people are in these places because that's what they lack and think they've found.

Similarly to cults, few people escape these mindsets without somebody reaching out to help them.

The truly terrifying thing is, as the article shows, a lot of them are already retreating from their loved ones. After that, who is left to be able to help them out?

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Conversely de-radicalization may not be needed.

I think people sometimes over-invest in the concept of redeeming these people. But actually focusing on them and their problems is doubling down on the validity and importance of their positions.

I advocate ignoring them and focusing on creating political power that we can actually use to advance our causes. If they come along, great. If not, consign them to the dustbin of history.

This is complicated when the people involved are emotionally close to you. But in general this is my philosophy.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago (6 children)

I mean that's great and all, except these people that you've consigned to the dustbin of history are now going to actively fight against your causes.

I think that some of them are too far gone but really this toxic environment needs to be fixed or else worse things will come from it. When you say "they should be ignored", that's part of the environment that causes these men to become the next shooter, or maybe just jump off a bridge because they have a conscience.

Whether you like it or not, you need these people to make the right choices, and part of that starts by fostering a more inclusive environment.

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[–] [email protected] 20 points 1 year ago (1 children)

The entire KICK platform is to intentionally fuck up kids and twenty somethings.

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