I was either 10 minutes early or 20 minutes late
A bus ride taking 40 minutes to go to work sucks
But the workplace was great so I don't have much to complain about
this post was submitted on 23 Dec 2024
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Work Reform
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A place to discuss positive changes that can make work more equitable, and to vent about current practices. We are NOT against work; we just want the fruits of our labor to be recognized better.
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- All workers must be paid a living wage for their labor.
- Income inequality is the main cause of lower living standards.
- Workers must join together and fight back for what is rightfully theirs.
- We must not be divided and conquered. Workers gain the most when they focus on unifying issues.
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- Higher wages for underpaid workers.
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- Better and fewer working hours.
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Are we really trying to make this of all things a generational thing? Why?
It depends on the job, if you have to say open a store then 10 min late is a problem. You have to say make a thing, then 10 mins is not an issue as long as the thing is done.
I have seen people with no respect for other peoples time (so they where late often) and they where not of a single generation but more commonly of a class (the people with means tend to think they can be late).
It depends on the job,
I am surprised how much this point is lost on the other commenters
Its wild that people can think a whole ass batch of people (a generation) thinks being 10 min late to anything is not a bad thing. Like if you show up to meet someone and they are 10 min late, its not the end of the world but if it happens every time you are going to judge that person.
I don't think jobs should be tied to timecards (I hate time keeping systems, I had to fix some) but to job requirements.
Some examples: Office work normally does not matter until it does. I once worked in a banks head office and had to at or shortly before 7:30am tell all the ABMs to change to the next business day (this would cause them to go offline briefly) and pull the reports for that day. If I was 10 min late the reports would not be there on time for 8am where they are needed for another task a co worker is expected to do before the bank opens (at 8am in some places).
Any retail store that has some respect for their employees and customers needs people to not be late, showing up 10 min late might just mean rushing to open or relieve some co-worker but that also is likely increasing the risk of accidents. I don't think its fair that someone gets to work an extra 10 mins or wait to buy whatever for 10 mins just because some one thinks "eh, 10 mins is close enough"
Task based jobs on the other hand (say programming, maintenance, sales, repair centres, etc.) should not really matter as much. When you start is less important then if you meet a deadline when finished. I used to work a job that wanted me to "start" every day at 7:42 AM (we used time units of 1/10th an hour) but would get real pissy when I did not leave my house until 8:30 or so since the stuff I was working on was in places that did not open until 9 or 10 am. They told me I should go to an arbitrary location (a warehouse or McDonalds where the examples they gave) by 7:42am to log in "in order to show I was ready for work". That was stupid and irrational, so I did not do it. But I would also not show up 10 min late if I could help it for any appointment (work or otherwise) since I value my time and the peoples time I am interacting with.
Why?
It’s a Fortune article. Their whole thing is keeping the class war active and right now a great way to do that is to make the older, capital owning generation, pissed off at the young ones so that they don’t think for a second this whole “widening wealth gap” thing might be unfair and oppressive.
I think the issue is they are not "keeping the class war active" but trying to make the class war into a generational one. I have worked with, for and had worked for me people who are often late and never did I see one age group of people show up more late then another. Hell I have had issues with staff showing up over an hour early and that was only people under 25 so far (not an issue with them doing it, just an issue with feeling I am taking advantage of them).
Sorry yeah I used badly unclear language there you are absolutely correct.
I should have said “It’s a Fortune article. Their whole thing is keeping the class war at less than a simmer. They do this here by providing distracting ammo to fuel other wars and blaming [age/race/gender/migrant status] for economic troubles rather than the true oppressive force that is capital.”
Thanks for understanding what I was trying to say before I even wrote it 😅
Dumb article trying to make laziness a feature (not a bug), and shit on boomers.
laziness is a feature, not a bug, and it’s literally how our brains are wired.
(e: also it’s literally a study into generational differences. empirical data showing there is a difference in mindset. if you think that’s shitting on boomers then it’s you who made the value judgement in the first place. also if you read the article, if anything, it’s shitting on gen z for not getting work done on time.)
In the 80s and 90s, Gen X were coming in late and the Greatest Generation was firing their our asses. It's generational because every generation becomes more concerned with punctuality.
Time clocks have been around since 1888 and people have been getting fired for being late even longer.
Stop trying to make this a generational thing.
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Is the work getting done? If so, what does ten minutes matter? Is it about productivity, or just about ensuring that work is sufficiently unpleasant to keep the peasants in their place?
What else is the overseer supposed to do to justify their position besides add stress and create reasons to not raise wages?
Its probably just what everyone's used to. I work in an ED. Fuck anyone who always turns up late. What does 10 minutes matter? It matters a lot actually. This is shift work. The work is never "done".
What's ED in this context?
Emergency Department. Its a Level One Trauma center, so down time is not predictable.
work is sufficiently unpleasant
Can't have these wagies too comfortable, the labour won't be alienated enough.
Work and quality of life > filling time to satisfy timecards
Well then the boomer bitches can pay enough for us to live 10-15 mins from work, not a 2 hr drive in rush hour. This close eyed brutal existence they are forcing on us is about to implode on them. The barbarians kicked over the oil, they dropped their torches into it, and they are currently sharpening sticks to roast the ruling class with. This is not a damn game. You stole our lives from us, now we want yours. (The actual life, not your quality of living)
I am fresh off a rather interesting conversation with my boomer boss. I’m a new manager and I’m working on policy and process. I was basically shut down, told to not bother documenting, that we have a way of doing things and he would spend every day with me for weeks to get it right if he had to.
I asked again, wouldn’t it be easier and more efficient to have these processes documented and accepted rather than force muscle memory? I even offered to document the process during our training sessions but was told that were a small company and no one will look at documentation if we create it (we’re a 2000 employee manufacturing company).
Oh well, I know how to work around obstinance and he’s pretty old.
Both of you are right.
You meed to document processes. The minute you put them to paper they will be out of date. No one will read them. It has always been so.
But it does allow you to go, "Ah here's where the process went wrong, step 6 in the SOP. Why don't you use it as a guide for the next one?" It then isn't me vs them, it's me helping them understand the documented process collaboratively.
Yup. Documentation is a necessary, but imperfect medium.
That’s precisely what I’m after, and what I’m proposing. I don’t care about the outputs, I care about the process that gets them to us.
Also why they need to be living documents, but if we have to reinvent the wheel every time we need a new one, it slows things down. I should mention, I’m on the IT side.
There are Process people and there are Get It Done people. Both are necessary. In their extremes, both are bad. When they work together they can do great things.
Depending on industry certs, documenting things will make life easier.
That's crazy. Anyone who is against documentation should not have a job that requires literacy.
Think there's a balance.
I work at a company where they have a documented process for everything. The thing is once some thing is in a document, it's like some written in stone mandate that becomes unchangeable and inflexible. The stuff in the "oral tradition" remains flexible.
Every so often new blood comes along, sees how dysfunctional the documented processes are, and proposes to fix the processes. Now in principle, they are right, but those of us who have been through a few iterations dread the outcome. Invariably the changes they propose to replace stupid existing processes are instead just added to existing processes, because some folks recognize the improvement but no one wants the blame for a mistake caused by leaving the old process behind. So each time we end up with more redundant stupid work.
So while in principle, documented processes are right, sometimes the political reality is stupid.
The. Your company is doing lean six sigma wrong....if at all. Processes are supposed to improve and change all the time.
What's a sigma?
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