this post was submitted on 26 Nov 2024
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On Monday, X filed an objection in The Onion’s bid to buy InfoWars out of bankruptcy. In the objection, Elon Musk’s lawyers argued that X has “superior ownership” of all accounts on X, that it objects to the inclusion of InfoWars and related Twitter accounts in the bankruptcy auction, and that the court should therefore prevent the transfer of them to The Onion. 

The legal basis that X asserts in the filing is not terribly interesting. But what is interesting is that X has decided to involve itself at all, and it highlights that you do not own your followers or your account or anything at all on corporate social media, and it also highlights the fact that Elon Musk’s X is primarily a political project he is using to boost, or stifle, specific viewpoints and help his friends. In the filing, X’s lawyers essentially say—like many other software companies, and, increasingly, device manufacturers as well—that the company’s terms of service grant X’s users a “license” to use the platform but that, ultimately, X owns all accounts on the social network and can do anything that it wants with them.

“Few bankruptcy courts have addressed the issue of ownership of social media accounts, and those courts that have were focused on whether an individual or the individual’s employer owned an account used for business purposes—not whether the social media company had a superior right of ownership over either the individual or the corporation,” Musk’s lawyers write. 

The case Musk’s lawyers are referencing here is Vital Pharm’s bankruptcy case, in which a supplement company filed for bankruptcy and the court decided that the Twitter and Instagram accounts @BangEnergyCEO, which were primarily used by its CEO Jack Owoc to promote the brand, were owned by the company, not Owoc. The court determined that the accounts were therefore part of the bankruptcy and could not be kept by Owoc.

Except in exceedingly rare circumstances like the Vital Pharm case, the transfer of social media accounts in bankruptcy from one company to another has been routine. When VICE was sold out of bankruptcy, its new owners, Fortress Investment Group, got all of VICE’s social media accounts and YouTube pages. X, Google, Meta, etc did not object to this transfer because this sort of thing happens constantly and is not controversial. (It should be noted that social media companies regularly do try to prevent the sale of social media accounts on the black market. But they do not usually attempt to block the sale of them as part of the sale of companies or in bankruptcy.)

But in this InfoWars case, X has decided to inject itself into the bankruptcy proceedings. Jones has signaled that Musk has done this in order to help him, and his tweet about it has gone incredibly viral. On a stream of his show after the filing, Jones called this “a major breaking Monday evening news alert that deals with the First Amendment and the people's fight to reclaim our country from the clutches of the globalists.”

"Elon Musk X Corp entered the case with a lawsuit within it to defend the right of X to not have private handles of people like Alex Jones stripped away. It violates the 13th Amendment against slavery, there are many issues. Today they filed a major brief in the case,” Jones said. “Elon Musk’s X comes to Alex Jones’ defense against democrat attempts to steal Jones’ X identity.”

Musk famously unbanned Jones, then appeared on the same Twitter Spaces broadcast with him. Musk has also tweeted occasionally that he believes The Onion is not funny. Jones, meanwhile, has been ranting and raving about some sort of conspiracy that he believes led a judge via the Deep State to sell InfoWars to The Onion at auction. 

X calls itself “the sole owner” of X accounts, and states that it “does not consent” to the sale of the InfoWars accounts, as doing so would “undermine X Corp.’s rightful ownership of the property it licenses to Free Speech Systems [InfoWars], Jones, or any other account holder on the X platform.” Again, X accounts are transferred in bankruptcy all the time with no drama and with no objection from X.

“Looming over the framework [in the Vital Pharm case] was the undeniable reality that social media companies, like X Corp., are the only parties that have truly exclusive control over users’ accounts,” the lawyers write. “X CORP. OWNS THE X ACCOUNTS.”

That a corporate social media company says it owns the social media accounts on its service is probably not surprising. Meta, Twitter, Google, LinkedIn, and ByteDance have run up astronomical valuations by more or getting people to fill their platforms with content for free, and have created and destroyed countless businesses, business models, and industries with their constantly-shifting algorithms and monetization strategies. But to see this fact outlined in such stark terms in a court document makes clear that, for human beings to seize any sort of control over their online lives, we must move toward decentralized, portable forms of social media and must move back toward creating and owning our own platforms and websites.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

You own what is on your machine, that you save locally.

Some companies believe they control the internet, but they do not. They control what is on the computers they own, that they save locally. Sometimes that is information that users have shared. That is their choice.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 12 hours ago (1 children)

Unless you use Mac or windows

[–] [email protected] 84 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (3 children)

Okay... so lets say Musk wins, and the infowars handle isn't transferred.

The Onion should then file an impersonation complaint with X and have the handle handed to them. I would assume in the auction the onion purchased the rights to the trademark InfoWars.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 18 hours ago

This would be interesting considering people like Elon want to get rid of Section 230. He could be shooting himself in his left foot to prevent himself from shooting himself in his right foot.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 hours ago (1 children)

X could just hide/delete/forbid the account entirely to avoid this. It’s not impersonation if it doesn’t exist.

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[–] [email protected] 181 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (4 children)

What the actual fuck?! Just that first paragraph!

On Monday, X filed an objection in The Onion’s bid to buy InfoWars out of bankruptcy. In the objection, Elon Musk’s lawyers argued that X has “superior ownership” of all accounts on X, that it objects to the inclusion of InfoWars and related Twitter accounts in the bankruptcy auction, and that the court should therefore prevent the transfer of them to The Onion.

So they argue that accounts are non transferable, even by court order!!
This is complete bullshit, and should not be taken seriously at all as a legal argument, obviously X has the right to close the accounts afterwards, if they are operated against the terms X has decided. But ONLY if that. It should not be allowed to do it arbitrarily.

[–] [email protected] 89 points 21 hours ago (2 children)

Not non-transferrable, as that would prevent Elon from claiming @america or the transfer of @POTUS.

[–] [email protected] 54 points 20 hours ago

All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.

[–] [email protected] 36 points 20 hours ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 8 points 14 hours ago (1 children)

Hah!!

Ooh, it's behind a paywall. Do you mind sharing the list please? Gets popcorn

[–] independantiste 27 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago) (1 children)

What the onion could do in such case that elon does not want to give the accounts as part of the deal is to send a letter threatening legal action if they do not take down the accounts for infringing on their InfoWars trademark

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[–] [email protected] 22 points 21 hours ago

You are naive, if you really think that the law still applies to people in Trump's near proximity.

[–] [email protected] 14 points 20 hours ago

I think the entire reason they're doing this is to set the precedent that they can defy court orders.

[–] conciselyverbose 95 points 21 hours ago (1 children)

It violates the 13th Amendment against slavery

Uh?

[–] [email protected] 45 points 21 hours ago

Just hollering bullshit, because in the past if he did that louder and longer it worked for jones.

[–] [email protected] 48 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 20 hours ago) (1 children)

Ok. The accounts can be withheld, suspended or whatever.

The Onion is therefore entitled to due compensation from X Corp., as this was considered to be included in the bid. X can have that NFT for just 47 billion dollars, what a deal! /s

[–] [email protected] 20 points 20 hours ago (2 children)

No. If valve cancel your steam account, you lose your games and they owe you a big fat zero.

Same goes for all accounts with assets attached.

Sad to say, but in this case it is musk's platform and his rules.

If he wants to go home and take his ball too. Tough luck.

Doesn't seem right, but it is legal and already happened on multiple platforms multiple times.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 14 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago) (6 children)

If valve cancel your steam account, you lose your games and they owe you a big fat zero.

That really depends on how good the consumer protection laws are in your jurisdiction. Not every country is as bad as the USA in terms of consumer protection... Some countries have laws that priorize people over corporations.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 20 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (2 children)

Perhaps, but it all depends on the judge's decision whether X corp's argument is completely bullshit or not.

For your Valve example, in the Subscriber Agreement you can terminate the agreement, or Valve can terminate it for a violation of the Agreement rules, with no refunds. For a termination without a valid reason, "no refunds" does not necessarily apply. I'm not saying it would be hard for Valve to come up with a bullshit reason to cancel anyone's account on a whim or to change the terms so that they get broken easily, but it's not automatic and courts can assign value to a specific license you have access to, based on the jurisdiction, in particular in places like Quebec, Australia, and the EU.

9C. Termination by Valve

Valve may restrict or cancel your Account or any particular Subscription(s) at any time in the event that (a) Valve ceases providing such Subscriptions to similarly situated Subscribers generally, or (b) you breach any terms of this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use). In the event that your Account or a particular Subscription is restricted or terminated or cancelled by Valve for a violation of this Agreement or improper or illegal activity, no refund, including of any Subscription fees or of any unused funds in your Steam Wallet, will be granted.

Addendum: I wasn't totally serious with the second paragraph, nothing may stop X from banning The Onion/Infowars or whatever after the transfer is complete. But trying to disrupt the transfer itself over it seems a little ridiculous.

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[–] [email protected] 19 points 17 hours ago

Fine, let them keep it. Just sue them for trademark infringement if they ever use it.

[–] [email protected] 32 points 21 hours ago (5 children)

A country where money gives you power over even the justice system, is just a joke of country and will eventually collapse on itself.

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[–] [email protected] 16 points 19 hours ago (3 children)

Classic not a lawyer but the terms of service say,

We give you a personal, worldwide, royalty-free, non-assignable and non-exclusive license to use the software provided to you as part of the Services. This license cannot be assigned, gifted, sold, shared or transferred in any other manner to any other individual or entity without X’s express written consent.

(Emphasis mine)

Twitter accounts are commonly shared by many individuals and I guarantee they do so without written consent. Does that invalidate/bring into question the whole clause or just the sharing part?

[–] booly 15 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

Contracts can be modified by the bankruptcy code.

In 11 U.S.C. § 365(f)(1):

Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) of this section, notwithstanding a provision in an executory contract or unexpired lease of the debtor, or in applicable law, that prohibits, restricts, or conditions the assignment of such contract or lease, the trustee may assign such contract or lease under paragraph (2) of this subsection.

So any continuing contract in which there are obligations on both sides, such as a premium account where the accountholder pays a fee and the service provider continues providing access to the service, is assignable in a bankruptcy, even if the contract itself says it's not assignable.

There's a few other bankruptcy principles at play, but that's the main one that jumps out at me.

There's also a classic case where the bankruptcy trustee can sell a bankruptcy debtor's Pittsburgh Steelers season tickets, including the right to renew for the next year on the same terms as all other season tickets holders. Just because the season tickets are revocable by contract doesn't mean that the team has the right to exercise that revocation against a bankruptcy debtor just because they don't like what's happening in the bankruptcy.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago) (1 children)

So Musk wants to take it to court that no accounts on X can be run by a team, only the person who made them, and they can't be transferred.

I wonder who owns @/POTUS then, some random whitehouse intern from almost two decades ago? What about @/Tesla and @/SpaceX, has he received written permission for them :) ?

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[–] [email protected] 11 points 18 hours ago (3 children)

I own SOME of my accounts. I self host lemmy, email, and a friendica instance.

Sorry to bring it up yet again, but I wonder how this works on Bluesky. On Bluesky, I host my own PDS and use my own domain as my handle. I don't see how bsky could try to claim any ownership of either.

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[–] [email protected] 1 points 10 hours ago

The corporate courts are on their way, chummer.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago) (3 children)

I don't disagree but I'd say that there's a more important lesson here: The concept of ownership is mediated by a legal system that gives the wealthy a special pass. Rich people can pay lawyers to make up concepts like "superior ownership" 'til the cows come home, and any subsequent precedent costs $600/hr to even access. None of us should feel secure under this system about our online lives or our fucking houses, even if we "own" them.

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[–] [email protected] 18 points 20 hours ago

Am I correct in seeing this as the company is claiming that courts of law cannot require them to transfer control of an account from one user to a different user? This despite the fact that doing so has been fairly standard practice for years now?

Personally, I think the lawyers for The Site Previously Known As Twitter have a very weak argument. However, I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice, so there's also that.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 21 hours ago (4 children)

Who owns your outlook.com account? Who owns your gmail.com account? I will give you a guess it is the company that owns the domain to the right of the @.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 21 hours ago (6 children)

I'm not sure why everyone is shocked. This has been the case since the beginning of the public Internet. It's their servers, their infrastructure, and everyone should have been completely aware that we are giving them content for free. I was never under any other impression, even back when I was using Usenet and IRC. That's why I don't post anything on social media I truly care about retaining ownership over.

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