this post was submitted on 21 Oct 2024
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[–] [email protected] 30 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago) (2 children)

Building out more and more renewables doesn't mean anything if emissions aren't falling - and they aren't. Since 2021, nearly 4 full years, the world has closed less than 1% of active coal power plants.

The buildout of renewables has arrived hand-in-hand with an increase in total energy usage. The energy mix has improved greatly in favor of renewables, tons of CO2 per KWh is way down, unfortunately we just use more KWh so total emissions are still rising.

Everything in the meme is a leading indicator for positive change, which is wonderful, but the actual change needs to materialize on a rather short timetable. Stories about happy first derivatives don't count for much.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 6 hours ago

From your link it, for me, it seems like emissions are platooning, similar to a technological S curve. Even if China and India are growing exponentially, reduction in other countries are enough to slow down the process significantly (specially if you zoom in in the last 10 years).

It’s very hard to predict change, but I suspect the deprecation of solutions that emit lots of emissions is about to skyrocket.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 5 hours ago

We might already have reached peak carbon emissions. There's also the thing where renewables are so much cheaper that it's in most countries best self interest to build renewables.

The thing the world is doing now is more energy but the cheapest one is electricity so more electricity. The duck curve is an energy storage opportunity that's being taken advantage of more and more. Things are heading in the right direction but it's not fast enough.

The next emissions on the chopping block are household heating and cement and low-med industrial heat with more advanced heat pumps or heat pumps set up in series.

I've decided to become cautiously optimistic recently the more I learn about how science is advancing the renewables despite governments sometimes being in the way.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 7 hours ago (1 children)

Why perchance has the interest in a self-sustaining life skyrocketed you think? Could it be because people can barely afford food anymore?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 6 hours ago

Not just that, it’s a combination of factors. Sustainable thinking, independence, a connection to the world and self and much more.

[–] [email protected] 16 points 8 hours ago (2 children)

I worry that climate defeatism has become a religion, and it will be difficult to separate it from policy discussion going forward.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 7 hours ago

Things just shifted instantly from "nothing needs to be done" to "nothing can be done."

[–] [email protected] -1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

climate defeatism has become a religion

Going outside to 90⁰ weather in October is a religion?

[–] [email protected] 3 points 3 hours ago (1 children)
[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 hours ago (1 children)

If the sum total of "Say no to climate defeatism" is "Don't feel bad during the latest in a series of historic heat waves", then you're not arguing against defeatism. You're arguing for denialism.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 hour ago

Don’t feel bad during the latest in a series of historic heat waves

Good thing nobody actually said that, then.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

It certainly hasn't defeated MY adoption expectations, and don't even talk to me about stock share prices for anything involving solar.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

I hate stocks, but I hope yours go to the moon!

[–] [email protected] 2 points 5 hours ago
[–] [email protected] 2 points 4 hours ago

This seems like a weird argument. One has to come before the other. You won't see a noticable reduction CO2 emissions until renewables are primary sources for probably decades. Sure that's not great but it's where we're at.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 7 hours ago (3 children)

So what is this indoor farming for cities?

I remember those boxes to grow salad in, vertically stacked, interesting concept because no need for toxic stuff and almost no water, and it's right there so no need for shipping.

[–] [email protected] 8 points 6 hours ago

You still need fertilizer and electricity that is less efficient than sunlight to grow indoors.

But somebody once gave terrible math about being able to feed a city from a vertical skyscraper farm and it's been latched onto very hard as a futurism solution.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 6 hours ago

Precisely that, hydroponics to be more precise. It’s not everything, but a great start

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 hours ago

Been growing plants for 30-years, using zero sunlight to full sunlight. The difference in energy use, manpower, all that, is stunning.

Food is food because it contains loads of energy. We eat corn not oak leaves. That energy has to be put into the plant, at a loss, to get energy out. TANSTAAFL, literally.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 5 hours ago (1 children)

Solar is cheaper than ever? I mean sure, but you still have to pay for it upfront, and by the time you got your money back you need some new panels. Also i like solar power and everything, but i'm not at home during the day, so i would produce energy for no one. Or i'd get a big ass battery, which is super expensive and doesn't last as long as the panels. And no, where i live, you don't get any money anymore for the extra power you produce.

It's also cool that the ocean is being cleaned, but we'll just produce more garbage in shorter time. So far we did plastic straws, which was a big thing that a lot of people are still mad about. And it was just basically a marketing campaign because a turtle had a straw in it's nose. The garbage that is being fished out of the ocean doesn't just disappear. It's better than chilling in the ocean i guess, but it's still garbage twice the size of texas that has to be delt with.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 5 hours ago

For your first point, sure let’s consider that the case, then the old panels can be recycled and you get more efficient ones, not a bad trade.

Also, share with your neighbour the extra energy? Or contact your municipal office to pass a tax cut/payback? There’s so much opportunity there! (Just imagine if your city passes such an initiative and others adopt too! Less reliance on fossil fuels!)

On your second point, yeah, we need more innovation in recycling technology. Hopefully we get there too 😊

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 hours ago
[–] [email protected] 29 points 13 hours ago

By the power invested in me by, well, nobody whatsoever, can I just take a minute to say, let's all cool down a little in the comments!

There's a lot of arguing against:

  • The idea that acknowledging the tragic reality of climate change makes you defeatist
  • The idea that because we have had some great advantages in green tech we can sit back and let climate change fix itself

I don't see anyone making those arguments here though! Just lots of people concerned about climate change with different skews of how positive/negative we should feel.

Personally, I swing between powerful optimism and waking in terror at 3:00am for the future we're hurtling towards. I'm sure other people are the same, so let's just be friendly to the fact that other people are in different vibes to us.

There are some people working together very well right now to dismantle the climate, so let's all remember that when we're talking with each other.

Peace and love!

[–] [email protected] 44 points 15 hours ago (6 children)

Is it defeatist to face the facts that we have released more carbon in 2023 than any other year? Is it defeatist to realize not only are we polluting non-stop, we are also destroying the oceans, we are destroying ecosystems and we are destroying ourselves at a rate that we can't control? That a majority of people are content living their lives this way if it means they don't have to make the hard choice of having and using less? We're already well past 1°C and are not going to slowdown it seems until its too late.

[–] where_am_i 2 points 3 hours ago (1 children)

Interest in solar panels has skyrocketed, and yet at least 50% of the world population won't stop driving ICE cars to work every day any time soon. While the ocean surface temperatures are on an exponential trajectory.

A climate catastrophy with mass deaths is inevitable. I'd be preparing instead of sugar-coating.

And after a few billion humans die, we can deploy solar panels and start living sustainably.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 3 hours ago

Yes, this exactly! The polls about sustainable living mean nothing when the ice caps melt, when the wildlife has been reduced to basically nothing and when we are all struggling to breathe with no trees and no plankton to produce oxygen.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 hours ago

It's like praising all the cabin cars getting repainted with eco-friendly paint while the train has already gone off the cliff and is plunging toward the ground.

[–] [email protected] 21 points 14 hours ago (3 children)

CO2 emissions of the world excluding China have declined. Chinas emissions did fall in Q2 of this year.

Seriously China has economic trouble, which slows down energy demand growth. The US has run the massive inflation reduction act, which seems to be working somewhat well and Europe was hit hard by the energy crisis reducing emissions in the EU through lower consumption and faster green roll out and Russia as its fossil fuel exports fall. On top of that green technologies like solar panels, wind trubines, electric vehicles, heat pumps and so forth become cheaper all the time. It is certainly possible that we can achieve peak emissions soon.

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[–] [email protected] 9 points 13 hours ago (1 children)

Whoa, whoa, street-preacher.

No, it's not defeatist to state facts. It's what you do or say immediately after that makes the difference.

Now, we're all feeling the same kinds of stress that would make any of us rattle on like that, and you must know you're not alone or even in the minority with your concern. The majority of people - polls show - want to avoid or to blunt that fate we worry is coming. And with the world swinging a little conservative for a while, it'll be even harder to make the changes now we had to make 20 years ago.

But trust in your fellow person instead of cursing them for indolents when you don't know their situation. If you go off like this at people on the edge of moving from subsistence to again having the opportunity to join you at the protests, you may risk losing them as an ally.

Softly, softly.

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[–] [email protected] 5 points 10 hours ago* (last edited 10 hours ago)

One day I will die, and sooner than I wish. Maybe some effects of climate change will do me in. At least nobody can say I haven't done what I could to stop it. It's what I do for a living.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 4 hours ago

Try looking at facts. Data. Or, rather, don't if you don't want to become depressed.

[–] [email protected] 60 points 17 hours ago (4 children)

I approve of the overall message but indoor farming is kind of insane in the present day. It uses incredible amounts of energy and our scarce building materials to do something we can do much more easily outside.

Long term it might be important but I don’t think it makes sense until we solve the current energy crisis.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 17 hours ago (1 children)

Initial upfront costs are heavy but you would be saving all of the transport and logistics costs for the lifetime of the facility. Aeroponics are also a lot less resource intense than growing in the dirt.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 6 hours ago (2 children)

Not in energy requirements when the sun is free and electricity and lightbulbs are not.

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[–] [email protected] 13 points 14 hours ago
[–] [email protected] 20 points 16 hours ago (3 children)

Acknowledging reality is not the same thing as defeatism or "not doing anything." I'd argue that putting your head in the sand and ignoring news/information you don't like is more damaging and closely related to the majority of the world's efforts over the past 50+ years.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 15 hours ago (4 children)

Thinking everything is fine leads to apathy. Thinking there's nothing we can do leads to apathy. The correct thought is that it's bad, but we can fix it.

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