this post was submitted on 03 Sep 2024

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Linux

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Linux is a family of open source Unix-like operating systems based on the Linux kernel, an operating system kernel first released on September 17, 1991 by Linus Torvalds. Linux is typically packaged in a Linux distribution (or distro for short).

Distributions include the Linux kernel and supporting system software and libraries, many of which are provided by the GNU Project. Many Linux distributions use the word "Linux" in their name, but the Free Software Foundation uses the name GNU/Linux to emphasize the importance of GNU software, causing some controversy.

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274

Is Linux As Good As We Think It Is? (lemmy.ml)

submitted 2 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

147 comments fedilink hide all child comments

Obviously, a bit of clickbait. Sorry.

I just got to work and plugged my surface pro into my external monitor. It didn't switch inputs immediately, and I thought "Linux would have done that". But would it?

I find myself far more patient using Linux and De-googled Android than I do with windows or anything else. After all, Linux is mine. I care for it. Grow it like a garden.

And that's a good thing; I get less frustrated with my tech, and I have something that is important to me outside its technical utility. Unlike windows, which I'm perpetually pissed at. (Very often with good reason)

But that aside, do we give Linux too much benefit of the doubt relative to the "things that just work". Often they do "just work", and well, with a broad feature set by default.

Most of us are willing to forgo that for the privacy and shear customizability of Linux, but do we assume too much of the tech we use and the tech we don't?

Thoughts?

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (2 children)

Linux users are self-selected for increased tech savvy, so they'll say, "Yes, it's the best," but really, the Linux community is still extremely forgiving of terrible user interface, and value things like FOSS over things like apps with robust, accessible feature sets. Linux users are happy to fix functionality holes with writing a shell script, and think nothing of it: it's not a lack in the OS, it's a testament to the power and flexibility of the OS!

I've used a few flavors of Linux, and their GUIs are almost uniformly terrible, only partially functional without using a terminal. For instance, they have various software and OS update apps located in semi-random menu locations, and none of them work as well as "sudo apt update / sudo apt upgrade / sudo apt full-upgrade / sudo apt autoremove". And there's a huge part of the Linux community that thinks this is great and not a problem at all.

Windows hides the ugly sausage-making from typical users, and forces IT folks and other developers to wrangle with it. Linux makes IT/dev lives easier while making typical users somewhat hamstrung if they're scared of a CLI. So, if that has meaning for you with regards to the question "Is Linux as good as we think it is?" then you may have your answer.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Terrible GUI? Microsoft can't even keep their print dialog consistent across their own programs, let alone dealing with different dialog boxes across third party software.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Windows has problems, no doubt. But in terms of surfacing functionality in the GUI, it does it a lot more thoroughly than Linux does.

Not to mention having to know things like what my window manager is, am i running “Gnome” or “KDE” before i download an app in a software store. And on and on. Linux is so much less friendly.

Every print dialogue in Windows, they all pretty much have all the same basic options, called the same things, so that inconsistency isn’t that big a deal.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Yes.

I absolutely hated the feeling of helplessness when I found a problem somewhere, when using Windows.
On Linux, I am happy to give bug reports/ wishlist reports and follow through with them. Maybe even fix something, if I feel like I can. That (and the higher transparency in communication) makes me much more forgiving of problems I may find anywhere.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

My experience has been filing a bug on a FOSS app, and having it almost immediately closed because it was a dupe of a bug reported ten years prior which remained open and unfixed. I'm not a programmer, so it's just, "Well, I guess I'm out of luck on this ever being fixed."

I've done a fair bit of UI/UX work in my career, so I have a lot of sympathy for naive users, and FOSS devs mainly do not. If there's some functionality that is only exposed with a command line parameter, well, that's good enough. Read the man page.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

sympathy for naive users, and FOSS devs mainly do not

From what I have seen, KDE devs that I interacted with, had a higher tolerance for mistakes, than I would want to have for myself.

I once submitted a wish for Kate, which was also submitted multiple times before and marked as Won't Fix, because: a) low demand; b) nobody to do it.
But when I started trying to implement it, I as given more help than I should have asked for.

So, it's probably just about chance. Don't let a few rejections stop you. If you consider it useful, even if it gets rejected now, someone will see it eventually. And some programmer might find it worth implementing.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (3 children)

if it didnt work, why would it be running the majority of the internet.. among other things?

linux is prolly better than we give it credit for

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[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

Switched to linux with ububtu, had good experience until snap Firefox became default.

Switched to arch linux with i3 wm through some random installer. Struggled a lot and couldn't understand anything. Watched a few videos on manual installation and got basic idea like systemd, compositors, etc. Followed wiki and youtube videos to manually install again and never looked back.

Currently using arch linux with hyprland and quite happy with my setup. I don't think I can use any other distro as a user cause aur is so good.

I really struggled with learning about how to learn linux things. Like nvidia drivers, kernels, etc. Once there are enough people documenting their experience I think linux will be very easy. Endeavor, mint, kde plasma, now upcoming cosmic should be user friendly.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago (1 children)

Nah, still has a lot of bugs, it simply don't have the same money that Microsoft has to fix quirks in certain hardware, and it's too fragmented, Microsoft knows what kernel that interface gonna run, KDE don't so they always need to fix for different kernels

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

Microsoft has features, not bugs.

Really though, I've had less issues running KDE than Win11 by a longshot. The drivers have also just worked for all my hardware. My Win11 can't figure out Bluetooth.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

All operating systems suck ass. There are problems and issues with all of them. It's the same argument for programming languages. Now it's the same argument when it comes to what brand of vehicle Ford or Chevy.

Don't get hyper focused on a brand, on a label. Simply use what's best for you and your needs.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

Linux to me is just an optional substitute of an OS, but it has yet to make it my primary day-to-day use. Linux isn't going to make the problems I get aggravated with like the verification-hell we deal with, go away. It's going to happen on both Windows or Linux regardless.

I have more patience when I give any laptop I get Linux, than I ever will should I decide to make Linux a primary OS of choice on my primary desktop machine. Because Linux does give me the whole 'works out of the box' feel with laptops than Windows would when it comes to driver hunting and I'm talking with old laptops, not newer ones where all of that is currently provided.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago

In general, I think genuinely that Linux requires a more hands on approach. But the best thing is, I solve a problem ONCE. Then I store the script to git and forget about it. The problem is done, it no longer exists.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

I also use Linux & Ungoogled Android on everything--and it is the best we got now that doesn’t involve a significant time sink or expertise to get things working. I would love to see alternative platforms be popular & with general hardware compatibility & either Nix or Guix support as well, I would consider giving it a run in the future since I like being open if something better is on offer. I like to keep light tabs on the Haikus, BSDs, OpenIndianas, & such of the world just in case… particularly if we ever got a memory-safe kernel with some proofs behind its logic (Rust doesn’t go hard enough, sorry fanboys). That said, generally, Linux is still good.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago (1 children)

No, not even close.

I've used Unix systems for years at work, and have dual-booted windows with various flavors of Linux at home for just as long. When I just need something to work, particularly something new or after a stressful day at work, I just use windows.

Why? Because it will just work. Maybe it won't work precisely how I want it to, maybe it will send all my data to Bill's push notifications, but it will run. In the rare case it doesn't, a quick google will fix it.

Compare that to Linux, where most things will work most of the time. And when they don't, you get to hunt through GitHub issues off-the-clock like a peasant, wading through comments from people with entirely different configurations and 'dunno it works for me'.

Linux is for tinkerers, and for people who want a Unix shell and can't afford a Mac, it has a long way to go to be more than that.

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[–] ThrowawayPermanente -2 points 2 months ago (2 children)

For privacy and security? Yes. For usability? Noooo.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 2 months ago

Are you using 2005 Gentoo or something?

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago

Actually, if Linux/BSD/... doesn't work the way I want it to, I can always tweak it. Win or Mac? Tough luck. So Linux's usability is always there, whereas the proprietary OS's quickly hits a very hard, annoying wall.

[+] [email protected] -6 points 2 months ago (11 children)

No. It really isn't.

Windows with the proper license and configuration is more stable, more productive, and that configuration takes less than an hour once for the life of the machine.

In 2024 if you're still bashing Windows for BSODs, stability, updates, etc, you're doing it wrong. You can bash all day long for privacy violations and corporate greed but both of those are fixed with the proper version like Windows Enterprise. Costs more, but you are less of the product.

[–] [email protected] -1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago) (1 children)

Funny someone downvoted you.

Clearly that person has never managed a 10,000 pc domain. Or hell, even a 10 pc domain in an SMB.

"The license is worth the cost" - I literally had this conversation with a peer not two hours ago. They have a client who's previous IT management built a domain using Linux. Yes, you can do it, but I'd only do it if your IT is fully in-house and stable. This was an IT vendor. It saved them (the client) licensing...like $250 or so.

Imagine how quickly they're going to burn $250 for a support issue because there's something odd about how the Linux software isn't exactly duplicating a windows DC? Or the next IT vendor doesn't know what you implemented, so have to find out about which packages you used and how they work. (In this case they're building a new domain and migrating everyone, because it's currently unsupportable. Glad they saved $250 to spend $20k today).

You don't use Linux desktop in a business to save licensing costs, unless you know the use-case inside and out. The first time your business has a need for something that doesn't exist in Linux land, all those savings are gone as you build a virtual host for Windows, and deal with the lost productivity.

And I use Linux every day for things like Proxmox, UnRAID, TrueNAS, etc. Even there the difference between design approaches is really problematic.

[–] [email protected] 0 points 2 months ago

Yes exactly. I love Linux. I build embedded systems devices with it. I run it on some of my rack appliances. But I'm also not a blind fan boi.

Windows made leaps and bounds into stability with XP. And since then it's been a slow cog into being an excellent enterprise grade OS even with users bashing it all sorts of ways.

Most (all) of the complaints except price focus on money grabs and features for the docile masses. Forced updates, reboots, integrations, etc. My 80 year old relatives can use it and you know what it works great when they type into the "computer question box". Click start menu and type. It brings up their files, folders, apps, answers to web questions, etc. That makes sense to someone who doesn't understand a computer. It's not pandering to the IT folk, it's pandering to Karen.

If you're IT folk, you can just spend a little more money on the proper license and all that goes away. Or you spend some time hacking the registry and get it for free usually.

The only BSODs I have had in the last decade are graphics driver related usually when pushing beta drivers hard. My Linux OS's have had way more stability issues with less interaction.

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