this post was submitted on 23 Feb 2024
35 points (94.9% liked)

United Kingdom

4087 readers
102 users here now

General community for news/discussion in the UK.

Less serious posts should go in [email protected] or [email protected]
More serious politics should go in [email protected].

Try not to spam the same link to multiple feddit.uk communities.
Pick the most appropriate, and put it there.

Posts should be related to UK-centric news, and should be either a link to a reputable source, or a text post on this community.

Opinion pieces are also allowed, provided they are not misleading/misrepresented/drivel, and have proper sources.

If you think "reputable news source" needs some definition, by all means start a meta thread.

Posts should be manually submitted, not by bot. Link titles should not be editorialised.

Disappointing comments will generally be left to fester in ratio, outright horrible comments will be removed.
Message the mods if you feel something really should be removed, or if a user seems to have a pattern of awful comments.

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS
[email protected]
[email protected]
35
Shamima Begum loses bid to regain UK citizenship (www.bbc.co.uk)
submitted 8 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
32 comments fedilink hide all child comments
top 32 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[–] [email protected] 26 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (4 children)

Am I the only one that thinks this is the wrong decision? She's British and is our responsibility.

Let's say someone is born and raised in America to Canadian parents. Then as a child they move to Belfast and join the IRA. Britian says "America what the fuck you sending terrorist over here for" then America goes "That person is a terrorist, we revoke their citizenship so it's not our problem now it's yours".

The real truth of the matter is UK has a problem with immigration from certain parts of the world and with certain groups in the UK. The soon we face up to that the sooner we can do something about it.

Begum joining ISIS as a child is a failing of the UK.

[–] [email protected] 13 points 8 months ago (1 children)

You're not alone at all. She fucked up, but she was groomed. She was 19 years old at the end of the islamic state, and she's only 24 now.

If the British government have evidence she committed crimes then cool, bring her back and put her on trial. If not then they have no case.

You can't make someone stateless for being a twat when they were 15.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

being a twat when they were 15.

She literally joined ISIS....

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

Not exactly, she went to live in the islamic state after being told it was a safe place for muslims, when she was facing discrimination and abuse in the UK. Her friend told her that everyone there was happy and that the rumours were all lies. Those messages have been released as part of her case.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago

Who hasn't made fucked up choices when they were 15? Especially having been groomed, we should be apologising for having failed her.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Huh? The Canadian American example doesn't match the Begum case. It would make sense if they went back to the US from the UK then the US revoked her citizenship because she's Canadian.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

Currently she isn't in the UK and she is stateless, she never had any other citizenship other than British.

Either way surely it's the British fault for bringing in people that will have terrorist children AND for failing to look after a child and allowing her to be a terrorist.

What has Bangladesh done to be responsible for this mess?

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The real truth of the matter is UK has a problem with immigration ~~from certain parts of the world and with certain groups in the UK.~~

Mate, people from the north don't even like southerners moving up there.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

That's a financial inequality thing. That's not a clash of cultures thing.

[–] [email protected] 10 points 8 months ago (4 children)

Should have thought about it before she left. She knew what she was doing. As did plenty of others that went. She's had a shit time off it yes, but it's all her own doing. She's alive and obviously getting support from somewhere. Unlike a lot of others that went. They're dead.

[–] [email protected] 27 points 8 months ago

I'm all for appropriately punishing people for the crimes they commit. But we usually don't deprive solo-nationality citizens of their citizenship (leaving them stateless) for the crimes she is accused of - this is a punishment that is only being applied to UK (including UK-only) nationals who have recent foreign ancestors (i.e. so who could hypothetically - but often not in practice - be eligible for another country's citizenship - in her case, Bangladesh). We also don't usually apply extreme punishments like this to people for crimes committed as children, and we don't usually punish children who were groomed and sex trafficked by terrorists as if they were the perpetrators.

The reality is that if Shamima Begum was a blonde-haired blue-eyed white girl whose parents and grandparents were all from Surrey, the media would have described her as a victim of sex trafficking; and the law that permits this punishment to be applied to her could not even have been used.

The legal system should not treat UK citizens differently according to whether or not the Tories think they look a bit foreign.

[–] [email protected] 26 points 8 months ago (2 children)

She was a 15 year old girl, groomed online and trafficked to Syria, by someone known to and potentially aided by, Canadian intelligence services. She was forced into a marriage (again she was 15 so could not give consent to this) and had 3 children (all of whom died as infants).

Yes she's done some awful things during her time with IS, but given her age at the time and the difference between her and, for example, "the beatles" group who were conducting beheadings, is huge.

She should be returned to the UK, face criminal justice for her crimes, sentenced accordingly and serve that sentence as what she is, a British citizen.

[–] [email protected] 17 points 8 months ago (1 children)

If she was white she would have been home years ago and they'd have serialised her daring feminist struggle to free herself from Islamist brainwashing.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago

Yup, Sam Elhassani was home ages ago and she went as a grown adult and there's more evidence in the public domain that she was active in the group.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago (2 children)

Are people allowed to make mistakes? Are some mistakes beyond forgiveness? Should someone pay for their mistakes forever?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Yes, some mistakes are beyond forgiveness. Becoming part of a terrorist organization is one such "mistake". Especially because she is now a threat to the nation's security. Cause you know, terrorists.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago (1 children)

This includes Americans then lol

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago

Yes, nationality is unimportant when talking about people who join terrorist organizations.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I dunno ask all the family members of all the people ISIS murdered and enslaved, if the people they love who are gone and destroyed, will get another chance

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

We can ask the same question to the victims of the IDF but plenty of Brits are over there now participating in a genocide. The difference is they're not brown.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

Classic whataboutism.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

It's still highlighting hypocrisy

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

She was a kid!

[–] [email protected] 6 points 8 months ago

Go join an army that is committing atrocities in Gaza - I sleep

Be human trafficked at 15 and married off to an ISIS fighter - Real shit.

[–] [email protected] -5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I think a terrorist like Shamima should be hanging from a rope.

Saying that, as Brit born and raised here, it brings me quite a bit of comfort knowing that I’m a lesser citizen than the natives since my parents are immigrants.

One law for the natives. One law for us foreigner-born cunts. Equal in citizenship? Like fuck we are.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I think it was a bit of a race to be honest. If Bangladesh revoked her citizenship first, the UK couldn't have.

As a Brit-born to Brit parents, if I have gained, say, Irish citizenship (or Spanish, or Kenyan, whatever) then the UK could revoke my citizenship under the same rules. It's the fact she had another citizenship that allowed them to do this at all.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are some horrible racist pieces of shit who would see it as you've described, but I don't think this is one of them.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

She has never had bangladeshi citizenship. She in theory could apply for it through being a descendent of citizens but they wouldn't give it. You can't revoke something that never existed. Britain made her stateless.