this post was submitted on 17 Feb 2024
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[–] [email protected] 98 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago)

the fact our overlords push so hard that communism is so evil is what made me look into it.

turns out its just a number of ideologies that basically wants to get rid of them in different ways, so no shit in retrospect.

[–] [email protected] 67 points 9 months ago (2 children)

And so we pat ourselves on the back for not falling for the "capitalist propaganda," not recognizing all the propaganda that we have fallen for. I'd mention some examples but of course that would garner downvotes and disapproval, and thus the cycle continues.

[–] [email protected] 108 points 9 months ago (7 children)

Who cares about downvotes? Give us your best examples - if they are indeed good, you may encourage people to think more about them, which is worth more than any amount of upvotes in the grand sheme of things.

[–] [email protected] 41 points 9 months ago (7 children)

Okay, here's a whole bunch I can think of off the top of my head.

  • Opposition to DEI initiatives, feminism, affirmative action, immigration, etc., are rooted in racism/sexism. Even dislike for certain movies is rooted in racism/sexism.
  • People are being stolen from and/or their privacy is being violated when companies use public data about them to train AI, target ads, etc. People get really mad about this.
  • On a similar note, AI art "has no soul" and AI artists aren't "real artists."
  • Hamas and/or Israel are evil. Pick whatever position you want on this conflict, there's a flood of propaganda pushing it and reasoned discussion that goes against it is hard.
  • Everything Elon Musk does is somehow evil or idiotic.
  • Cryptocurrency is a scam. AI is a scam. \ is a scam.
  • Religion is bad.
  • All cops are bastards.
  • Unions are good and corporations are bad. Heck, the "capitalism is bad" message in this comic is itself propaganda.
  • Cancelling major NASA initiatives like Artemis or Mars Sample Return (or James Webb, Space Shuttle, etc. historically) would be a disaster for space exploration and science, despite their wildly spiralling costs.

Okay, that last one is perhaps getting down into the weeds of one of the more particular communities I find myself in. :)

Of course, there are other communities out there that I'm not commonly in that I expect have the opposite "everyone agrees" views on a lot of these things - DEI is part of some "gay agenda" conspiracy to groom children, Elon Musk is an infallible messiah, cops are the thin blue line protecting us from criminals, unions are destructive to the economy and cause unemployment, and so on and so forth. Propaganda is highly specific to its target audience, as this comic suggests.

The fundamental problem is just that in any significant group or community there are always hot-button issues that "everyone agrees" about, and attempting to question or discuss them with any nuance gets shouted down.

[–] [email protected] 39 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

Those ideas you listed are indeed often spread by means of propaganda, but the word propaganda has gained a negative connotation that is itself lacking nuance and is thus undeserved.

Any information disseminated that reflects the views or interests of any particular doctrine or cause - even just your own - is propaganda. If you have publicly expressed any sort of political opinion at all, you have engaged in propaganda.

The word was more useful when widely disseminating information required lots of resources or coordinated effort. Now that anyone can easily do so in a second, the word casts too wide a net to be useful in determining what information is expressed in earnest, and what information is deceptive.

When I see propaganda I first consider where it's coming from. Does it have the backing of mainstream media? Is it publicly/privately funded? Is it facing opposition, and if so from who? Is it grassroots or is it astroturfing?

Edit: Using the comic we're commenting under as an example, it is indeed propaganda. That of course is not a useful categorization, so we'll consider its' source. The creator of this comic Alzward is independent and their funding seems to come both from crowdsourcing and from selling access to their comics on Webtoons. The scale suggests this is just an independent artist supporting themselves, and that their art - and by extension this comic - is not influenced by money to a great extent. From this we can infer that the views expressed in this comic are expressed in earnest by the artist. The artist's views may themselves be influenced, but that's beyond the scope of this discussion. In other words, this is grassroots propaganda.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Propaganda derives from the foreign missions of the catholic church to propagate their faith. This was later generalized to include any messaging with the intention of propagating a belief system, and, after WWI began to also be inflected by a sense that it is deliberately misleading.

The word "propaganda" isn't what needs "saving."

[–] [email protected] 11 points 9 months ago* (last edited 9 months ago) (1 children)

I'm not trying to "save" the word propaganda. In highlighting its over-broad definition in combination with its negative connotation, I am actually advocating against its use.

"saving"

Also, don't use quotes around something the person you're responding to didn't say. You are now the second person I've responded to in this thread to have done so.

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I think there's an important distinction to make here between how people come to believe something, and whether or not they're true. Propaganda can cause people to believe things that are true for incorrect/wrong reasons.

Are all of these believed by people for bad reasons due to propaganda? Sure. Are all of them false? I don't think so. Most of them have some truth in them, but oversimplify or overgeneralize from those facts, and nuance is important in understanding them.

[–] [email protected] 7 points 9 months ago

Yup. At least one of those bullet points is something I actually believe myself, I just recognize that a lot of people who believe it haven't really thought about it.

[–] [email protected] 9 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I'd agree with all of these in a heartbeat! Thanks for sharing. I feel like most of these are matching the general vibe I get from lemmy anyways. However, I'm sure there are more than enough things on here and in my bubble "everyone agrees" about that are just wrong, like you said. The Israel/Hamas thing was the latest example where I disagreed with lots of people. Maybe some other comments will show me some of my own wrong opinions.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

We are all victims of some sort of propaganda, you can’t deny that, I love lemmy but a lot of people here give ‘I know everything and I am right’ kind of vibe which I don’t like, especially on the subjects mentioned above

[–] UNWILLING_PARTICIPANT 5 points 9 months ago

Well done, got my hackles up with at least 3 of those.

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[–] [email protected] 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Difference is you get down votes for speech and not a prison sentence or sent to the front lines of a war meat grinder. Just for some perspective that you apparently need.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 9 months ago

Where did I say otherwise? I'm only addressing the prevalence of propaganda and our susceptibility to it, not Russia's war measures or oppressive lack of free speech.

[–] [email protected] 42 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Universal? Any kind of social program is called communism.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Any kind of social program is called communism.

Glim-Glam is pleased.

[–] snugglesthefalse 3 points 9 months ago (1 children)

It's all fun and games until Stalliongrad snowballs and joins the war

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[–] [email protected] 17 points 9 months ago

we need to do something! but first, let me finish my beer

[–] [email protected] 17 points 9 months ago (1 children)

I hear lots of people say shit like "eat the rich!"

Or "global strike!"

But it never seems to go anywhere.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago

Ain't hungry enough yet

[–] [email protected] 10 points 9 months ago

And Americans still believe we were on the right side of the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Nationalism is the same everywhere.

[–] [email protected] 6 points 9 months ago (1 children)

Russia and its vassal countries are Orwellian dystopias. The USA and its vassal countries are Huxleyan dystopias.

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