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TU/e coordinates EU project to push next-generation private and secure online payments (www.tue.nl)

submitted 8 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]

11 comments fedilink hide all child comments

A new online payment system that is socially, ecologically, and fiscally responsible, to make finance easy for common people. That’s the aim of the Next Generation Internet pilot named NGI TALER. This project, coordinated by the Eindhoven University of Technology (TU/e), is operated by a consortium of eleven partners from eight European countries with the objective to roll out an innovative electronic payment system for the greater benefit of European citizens, merchants, and banks.

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[–] [email protected] 12 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

The payment solution GNU Taler

I wasn’t expecting this to be based on a GNU project. I’ve heard of GNU Taler before, but it didn’t really register this initiative was based on the project.

…it offers privacy for the buyer: neither merchants (payee) nor banks can trace or link the payments to the payer. That makes the system similar to cash for the consumer, bringing this level of privacy to online payments.

The European program NGI TALER enforces transparency on the payee side, allowing governments to hold businesses accountable for their income and tax obligations.

So, opposed to cash the government can still view all transactions but the corporations can’t. This would be an improvement over card payments in terms of privacy, but it’s still worse than cash.

It is also a no-risk payment option for the merchant as there is no equivalent of fake or stolen credit cards, as payments are cleared and confirmed instantly just like cash. There is no new currency involved, there is no energy-consuming proof-of-work or proof-of-stake method, and payment approval is processed even faster than with credit cards.

~~The amount of people using proof of stake payments is negligible and the people that are currently using cryptocurrencies probably won’t switch. So this probably won’t impact energy usage at all.~~

Overall, I think it’s good to see effort being put into further development and testing of the GNU technology. We’ll see what happens to it in a couple years.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

So, opposed to cash the government can still view all transactions but the corporations can’t. This would be an improvement over card payments in terms of privacy, but it’s still worse than cash.

If I understand correctly, goverement would see when you cash out money to Taler Wallet, but now what you buy then. But I do not know the protocol internal work.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 8 months ago

So this probably won’t impact energy usage at all.

The banking/payment industry today runs extremely power hungry systems to process payments, so my guess would be the new system runs much more efficiently.

Source for banking CO2 footprint

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The amount of people using proof of stake payments is negligible and the people that are currently using cryptocurrencies probably won’t switch. So this probably won’t impact energy usage at all.

This system would slow or stop adoption of these energy intense operations, so in that way it would positively prevent new energy wastage.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago

Good point

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (2 children)

in that it offers privacy for the buyer: neither merchants (payee) nor banks can trace or link the payments to the payer

How does the product gets delivered then, if the merchant does not know who the buyer is?

[–] [email protected] 4 points 8 months ago

The merchant would know via form filled on checkout, just like it is done today. Payer can also create a cryptographic proof of payment. But there still would be a benefit of payment processor itself not knowing what you bought.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago)

deleted

[–] [email protected] 0 points 8 months ago (1 children)

The only problem with this is you still have to use government currencies and cryptocurrency people, at least the real ones do not trust the government or their currencies and would rather not accept them. I am personally to the point where the only reason I use dollars at all is because other people want them. I don't find value in them and get rid of them as fast as I possibly can, except for a small amount for unexpected expences.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I think realistically you know that very few people share the same thinking. What EU is doing is for everyone to benefit from a better system without anyone ever realising they changed.

I share your view btw and also very familiar with and user of crypto. But honestly, crypto is not for everyone and never will be. People want the safety net that is banks and governments.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 8 months ago

I think most people will eventually use crypto when they realize that the "safety net that is banks and governments" is the problem with society. The governments work to make the rich richer and the poorer, poorer over time by printing money and distorting markets. The hard rules of supply in crypto is a major upgrade since your savings doesnt go up in inflation smoke over time.