this post was submitted on 07 Mar 2024
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[–] [email protected] 5 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I think Europeans in general psychologically still feel themselves weak without NATO, unable to fill the needs of their own defense.

I've been reading about 1st Indochina war yesterday, so - emotionally biased.

[–] SuddenDownpour 25 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (3 children)

EU's population: 448 million

EU GDP: 19 trillion dollars

Russia's population: 143 million

Russia's GDP: 1,78 trillion dollars

Simplifying a bit here (I'm obviously taking Morocco and Belarus for granted, assuming that Turkey wouldn't attack Greece, and so on), but it's pretty much a "gotta get our shit together" situation, because there's no reason why we should depend on the US for defense, or anything else.

[–] [email protected] 11 points 8 months ago (1 children)

I assume you meant trillion and not million for those gdp figures? Even then, they're low.

[–] SuddenDownpour 3 points 8 months ago

Fixed, good catch

[–] [email protected] 7 points 8 months ago

That's about architecture more than resources. "Gotta get our shit together" doesn't negate the fact that shit isn't together yet.

It's good to have resources, but such a situation is still weakness. Only I think NATO in some sense is a contributing factor, and EU frankly too, both not in the least because of all those veto and consensus rules.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 8 months ago* (last edited 8 months ago) (1 children)

I think it's also been a case of "it's nice to spend money on nice things instead of things designed to kill people". Which it is! It's not a non-significant part of why EU's GDP per capita is so much higher than Russia's.

Which is also why fuck Russia. Governments like that make everything worse.

[–] SuddenDownpour 1 points 8 months ago

Completely agreed. The ideal defense spending is 0. The problem is that this is only possible if everyone agrees that military action is not the proper method to solve international conflicts.