this post was submitted on 02 Mar 2024
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every time i see a "leftist" talk about not voting for biden, and thus supporting trump...
If Biden wanted my vote he could simply stop supporting genocide. Really quite a low bar for him to clear.
There's "holding your nose" and there's voting for someone actively aiding a genocide.
Do you really believe not voting for Biden deceases the likelihood of genocide in Gaza? Because the alternative seems so much worse in every way, both for Gaza and so many other massively important issues
You are on a different and better level. You are a Chad consequentialist. Managing probabilities, shooting for the best outcomes, minimizing losses. Setting up the group of ideologically aligned leaders for future success. Fighting off fascism for four more years against all odds.
They are a weak feelings voter. Hopes Biden senpai will notice them and throwing a temper tantrum when he doesn't. Talks about genocide, but doesn't actually care if Trump will handle the genocide any differently than Biden. Wants everyone else to suffer because they are suffering. Hoping if Trump gets elected that someone else will do the hard work and fighting to fix everything. Is burned out on politics, but instead of not voting quietly, makes big posts about how not voting is actually a good and very smart idea because they can't handle the fact that they need to rest.
I'm not voting for someone who's pro genocide, sorry.
And instead, a genocide will still be on, and also more women will go to prison for seeking medical care, and also my LGBT friends will have their rights eroded even more, and also the new president will annoint more christofascist Godkings to the Supreme Court ensuring that any attempt to vote for an actual leftist in the future is impossible, and it'll be fine, because at least you didn't vote for the guy that wouldn't have done all that extra awful shit
A vote is not an endorsement, stop treating it like it is.
Wow that all sounds awful. Biden should really try to win in order to prevent that.
I suggest he make himself more appealing by being anti-genocide.
Yeah, he should, and if he doesn't, you still have to vote for him anyway, because the alternative is necessarily worse.
It absolutely sucks that Democrats are able to make zero effort and get votes based solely on the fact that they aren't Republicans, but that's the way it is. Vote in primaries, fight to make Republicans adopt better policies so that Democrats have to react, and vote blue in November, because the alternative is half the people in the community we're arguing in going to fucking jail for being trans.
fuck you, i won't do what you tell me
Then you get someone pro genocide anyways, but you get to hold your head real high when your friends die because they had an etopic pregnancy. Good job.
that's not going to happen, so don't worry about my friends
That won't happen because you don't have any friends who are women or you don't have any friends in general? Because it absolutely will happen.
Maybe some mentally ill guy needs to kill himself in front of a pro-life rally for you to care first?
it won't happen because we take care of each other
I didn't realize you lived in a Broadway play. I'm sure that mindset will help when federal bans/police come in.
not in a Broadway play, just with a bunch of anarchists.
Same difference.
How, exactly, do you have the knowledge and capability to take care of a medical emergency that will require what would legally be, a murder?
Reminds me of CHOP
we protect us
And all those people who don't have anyone to take care of them? Oh that's right, you don't actually care about them. You only care about making yourself feel good.
wrong
Okay, so you don't care about all the people who will be effected then.
of course I do. how bad faith would it be for me to accuse you of not caring about the people in Gaza? or the people who can't discharge their student debts?
The difference is I am trying to minimize the harm done and you are not. If biden doesn't win then trump does, that's the reality. The fate of the people in Gaza are not what this election dictates. No matter who wins the people in Palestinian (my people) will continue to be bombed. But you know what is effected by the winner? The fate of the women who need abortions and the fate of many trans people. That is what gets decided by this election.
You're not doing what you can to minimize the harm done, you are allowing through inaction the worst outcome.
The election will end with either trump or biden winning. If you don't vote for biden you are helping trump by making it easier for him to win.
I'm voting for the best candidate, someone who won't bomb brown people.
only a vote for trump helps trump
I saw someone else post this
If 10 people vote and 5 go to Trump and 5 go to biden then you've avoided a Trump victory and allow for another round.
If in that 2nd round a person who voted for biden decides to go 3rd party now trump has 5 votes biden has 4 and the 3rd party has 1.
The person who switched to 3rd party helped Trump win along with the 5 who voted Trump. If you don't understand that then you're being purposefully obtuse. Or you could explain how that 3rd party vote didn't help Trump without responding with a thought terminating cliche
the only votes that help Trump are votes for trump. a vote for Jill Stein or cornel west is a vote against Trump. a vote against Trump doesn't help Trump.
your scenario presumes I would vote for Biden. I did that once in 2008. I haven't voted for a Democrat for president since and I won't be voting for Biden this year either.
What does this mean? You're going to give abortions for your friends because they can't legally receive the life-saving medical care they need from doctors?
You know how often this sort of thing used to kill people? You're cool having that blood on your hands?
I won't have any blood on my hands, unlike people empowering Biden or Trump.
Women dying of ectopic pregnancies, Mexicans being murdered at the border, and trans kids being beaten to death at their own schools might disagree about that.
But at least you can pretend that you did something to help, by doing nothing.
that's all happening now. Biden being in power makes no difference
Nah. He knows what he needs to do to get my vote.
it is an endorsement.
I'm not asking you to. I asked if you truly think things will be better when you don't?
cool bud, then you'll get someone who's pro genocide anyway. what a difference you made.
At least their conscience will be clean when our trans brothers and sisters are rounded up for extermination.
Biden isn't pro genocide, at least there is no evidence to say that. The Biden administration has been against the ground invasion from the start.
Biden has made some missteps in my opinion, but America pulling support for Israel was never a real option. Israel does require aid, but Netanyaho doesn't care if that aid comes from the US, or from his buddy Putin. Israel realigning with Russia would put Palestine in an even worse position because it would threaten their support from Iran.
Then, of course, there is the risk of a regional war breaking out of Iran takes the strained relationship between the US and Israel as an opportunity. That could easily pull other countries in and become WW3.
Foreign policy is about more than just virtue signaling. It's outcomes that matter, and what a lot of people are calling for will not get them the outcomes they are looking for.
Not that I'm shaming anyone for pressuring Biden. The positive movement on aid shipments was very likely helped along by the protest votes in Michigan.
How would aligning with Russia would help Israel when the US locks every weapon they can lock?
Israel does a lot of research and innovation for US technologies, including weapons. That would be of great value to Russia. I can't speak as to what weapons the US can and can't lock.
All of this is in a kind of unrealistic realm, because US support for Israel isn't going anywhere.
Note: I despise Trump.
Maybe it does... But not in the way many think.
Imagine Trump wins, starts doing the shit he is saying he will do and the outcome is a civil war. I think Israel would stop being something the US would think about. And then the genocide stops... At least in one direction. But given the bad blood there is now there...
I don't think Israel would stop doing what they're doing just because support stops from the US. They still have a lot of support from Europe and their own resources besides. They're a nuclear power, they have however much leverage they want.
The US should cut ties to at least partially absolve itself of responsibility for the genocide, but Palestine is not going to be saved until some global power is willing to stand with Palestine against Israel.