this post was submitted on 03 Feb 2024
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I was in the same camp one year ago. I sometimes still use it due to Synergy not working otherwise.
It's a common occurrence in X11 that I get a full screen "Oops something broke. [Log out]"-screen, except you cannot log out because the screen doesn't register any inputs.
So, these days: Wayland just works, and X11 (except for some specific software) causes problems. But, I aslo use AMD GPU.
So, what in particular is not ready with Wayland? I hated it two years ago. Now, I have little reason to.
screen recording/sharing, automation, it's inherant fragmentation because it decided that basic window server functionality should be implemented on the DE, basically every driver but a super small subset of drivers for devices the devs care about which do not include nvidia drivers which are a huge portion of the userbase, the absolutely ridiculous architectural choices that intentionally blocks basic functionality, and furthermore causes a crash to completely freeze your computer which forces restart, a complete failure to understand standard monitor EDID, and a refusal to allow you to set them yourself (to this day my monitor, a bog standard 144hz 1440p LG monitor, is not supported by wayland), no global hotkeys, broken sleep mode, breaks appimages entirely, no redshift, the developers made sweeping design decisions that don't work and then get pissy and throw temper tantrums in the mailing lists when people point out that they don't work, heavily moving away from portability and modularity (the devs think nobody uses BSD?!), windows can't raise themselves or keep themselves raised, or absolutely position themselves, so toolbars/utilities/etc can just go fuck themselves, sudo gets broken and has to pipe passwords everywhere as a workaround which means sudo has increased attack surface on wayland, and color management is non-existent.
And this is just shit I have personally ran into the last time I tried it, which was about 4 months ago.
I don't know about all of those. Not sure if you downvoted me, in which case you might have the predisposition of not giving a shit. In which case I'd be most happy to oblige.
As for the technical implementations / shortcomings, I... don't really care about it. The reason I didn't use Wayland before was because things didn't work. The reasons why I don't use X11 now, is because things occasionally stop working. The reason why I still sometimes use X11, is that unless I do so, some specific software doesn't work. That's the frame of mind I have, and I don't have any allegiance or vested interest beyond that. You seem to have that, and that's great. Caring about the technical details has my respect.
So as for the stuff you mention that is directly user-facing:
ssh -X
is amazing, and doesn't work, but it's been about 15 years since I used it.The reason I care about the technical implementation shortcomings is because they don't go away. They don't magically fix themselves over time, they snowball, especially when the maintainers refuse to admit they're shortcomings and insist on doubling down on them.
As time goes on, new functionality and technologies are going to emerge, and you need to be able to fold those, cleanly and reliably, into your codebase. And frankly, wayland's devs are having trouble getting past and even current technologies implemented cleanly into their codebase, because they're made architectural decisions that exclude those technologies. This is just going to be more and more of a problem as time goes on, imo.
Thanks for the clarifications.
I do hope it improves. I never understood why Wayland became a thing, if it's fundamentally flawed. But then, on the other hand, it's strange to not make the improvements in X11, unless that too is fundamentally flawed.
Ngl, never once had an issue with any of these.
That being said I mainly use screen recording through kms capture with wlroots, which never once has had an issue for me