this post was submitted on 06 Nov 2023
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The dating apps are just a symptom of the disease, to be completely honest. The hook-up culture isn't going anywhere, because despite what people say, that's what continues to happen. Anyone longing for a genuine connection are wasting their time on these apps, especially if you're guy. People need to work on the impossible standards, on the constant approval-seeking/instant gratification, and set their priorities straight
I've found several long term relationships off tinder as a WLW. It seems to work pretty well for me. The system doesn't seem to be working for guys, and that's unfortunate. But a lot of the pressure on women to settle for any man has gone away as women have become more self reliant. The whole thing has become far more consensual and less mandatory for survival. That's going to influence men's dating success no matter what medium people use to find matches.
My personal experience with these has been even worse than the average, because my demi ass just doesn't find most of the people on those apps interesting.
After half a year of some activity, I got maybe 2 likes, and 0 matches. Obviously I don't even know who those people are, because the app doesn't show me until I pay. Issue is, if I didn't already swipe on those people, I don't care who they are anymore.
Ironically, when I checked out the BFF section, I got several pings within a few days
This is ultimately a big part of it, and it's universal, not just in dating. Most friendships are "friendships of convenience" and the other types of relationships typically progress from there. But in western culture, we don't have any third places, and so we just plain don't make friendships of convenience anymore.
If you're demi how are you judging people based on images?
I obviously I can't speak for the OP you are questioning but I'm also on that demi spectrum, if you want my two cents.
It's not that I can't see that someone is attractive, it's just that I don't find them sexually attractive. I'm sure there are a lot of het men that would agree that Timothée Chalamet or Chris Evans are very attractive and handsome men but that doesn't mean that they want to have sex with them. It's not like people go around looking at beautiful art or gorgeous sunsets and think "man, I'd really like to fuck that" lol
I believe they also mentioned that they didn't find them interesting, not that they found them unattractive. I have the same issue. When these apps are set up for looks first no one really bothers to sound overly interesting, they just want to come off as fuckable and not a murder.
That's pretty much how I'd describe it too. In my own words, I basically just don't connect to people how someone normally would. Someone would first experience lust, and then build an emotional connection, once they get through the rest, but I don't really experience any romantic feelings towards a person until that connection had already been built.
Maybe choosing an attractive photo at a beach, with a drink, at the same place as the next 100 girls, would work for someone else, but for me it's pretty much an instant no. I'm looking for a person to share future experiences with, not a picture that has been purposefully selected to win a popularity contest
I think I might also be demi and I don't know what to go after with these apps. I try to talk to anyone who doesn't look like a serial killer but it feels like I'm supposed to make a sexual impression of some kind to get them interested in talking to me. So if it's an app where you swipe I'm basically swiping yes on everybody and I'm completely rudderless.
There are some dating apps/services that don't use images until you've agreed to like each other but I live in Canada and the nearest other users are either from Europe or South America (the continent) on all of them.
What does WLW mean?
probably Woman Looking for Woman
I was guessing White Lesbian Woman
ye that works too
I married a smoke show I met on Bumble.
I gotta be real: you're all doing it wrong.
It's a sea of people's assumed personas. Being genuine actually makes you stand out.
Feel like you're pressured to be or act a certain way in order to get matches? And then you're sad that they're of low quality? While you are actively misrepresenting yourselves? Wtf did you think was going to happen?
If you're approaching it like you're trying to get a high score, you aren't going to be yourself, and you and the people you match with are going to be disappointed. Faithfully represent yourself and what you want. Accept you'll get even less attention than you already are. Get much fewer but higher quality connections.
Every online dating forum's advice is incredibly terrible, and people failing to realize that they don't HAVE to treat the platforms as a Skinner Box are what I think the root causes of the decline of online dating.
Which, isn't to say the industry doesn't bear most of the responsibility. If people treating your platform as a Skinner box decimates the value of your platform, maybe you shouldn't go to such great lengths to make your platform such a box.
My ex was on bumble and she had over 4000+ likes. She was too anxious to even open the app by the time we had met. I deleted it for her.
You can have the greatest profile in the world as a dude, it just dosent matter statistically speaking if you're not perceived as attractive/ have shitty photos.
If you married a smokeshow you met off of bumble, you could have probably had the same or better luck in real life. I'm not saying boo hoo poor boys but at the same time most of the guys desperately hoping for a connection on these apps won't be able to get a date. Guys outnumber women on these apps something like 4 - 1.
The monetization of the apps are no good. I'm not agaisnt online dating but at the same time the status quo is pretty shitty, espcially if you fall into categories of people who are viewed as less desirable on these apps; ie Asian men and Black women.
I can't stress enough that I understand the mechanics at play. I am a software engineer. It's literally my job to step back and understand how systems work.
I'm saying my initial failure, and the failure of most users, is choosing to compromise their authenticity for short term gains, if long term connections are your objective.
Look at any dating app forum. They're all obsessed about min-maxing your profiles. They've got repositories of pickup lines. They're all running under the faulty premise that you want to maximize the number of matches.
That is a great strategy if you are looking for a hookup. That is a great strategy if you're looking to maximize dopamine hits.
It is an intrinsically self-defeating approach if you're looking for a steady long term relationship.
If you’re looking for a steady long-term relationship, there are a few factors that have to align, and one of them is you. If you’re not getting matches at all, it’s discouraging.
And my understanding is that the algorithm for apps like Tinder (as opposed to apps with compatibility algorithms, like OkCupid) make it less likely that you’ll be shown to a given person the more that you’ve been swiped left on. That means there’s a good chance you won’t be mutually shown to someone who would be a great match because your profile (including your pictures) isn’t broadly appealing.
When dealing with an app like this, if you have no quality matches, working to improve the appeal of your profile and get more right swipes, even by people you aren’t interested in, is actually your best strategy to get more quality matches.
My personal experience anecdotally confirmed this, though I haven’t used Tinder in over 5 years, so maybe they’ve improved. But back then if I put something in my profile designed to weed out bad matches, I got fewer matches, period - including of the people I wanted to match with. And I’m not talking lines that are generally looked down on, anyway, like “swipe left if X.” Specifying the kind of dating I was looking for meant I got fewer matches from people who were also looking for that.
What worked for me was to figure out how to signal to the people I wanted to match without being unappealing to the people I didn’t, to swipe left on any obvious bad matches, and to try to have organic, authentic conversations with as many matches as I could, even if those conversations didn’t go anywhere, because Tinder rewarded that kind of engagement.
I guess I can still only speak anecdotally, but the moment I stopped trying to be broadly appealing, my matches tanked by like 50x.
But the quality of the matches from that point on skyrocketed. Basically every match turned into a LTR. Then a marriage in the ultimate case.
But maybe I'm just good looking enough that despite my best efforts, the floor on my appeal was still high. (/s)
Anyhow, if you're planning on completely abandoning the platform anyhow... Why NOT change the approach? What is the worst that could happen? Meeting people IRL and on an app have never been mutually exclusive endeavours. Shackling yourself to a modality if interacting with the service because someone told you it was the best way of doing things or that you're gaming the system is some kind of Andrew Tate Neil Strauss thinking. If it isn't serving you: change it. Don't double-down on a losing strategy.
And, sure, "abandon apps completely" is A way to change things up... but I hope people could learn to incrementally experiment and innovate rather than have step 1 just be burn it down and walk away.
Still a valuable anecdote IMO. But a 50x decrease is substantial, especially for guys. Some guys might not have ever had 50 matches. More importantly, do you think you wouldn’t have had, or noticed, your high quality matches if your profile had stayed more broadly appealing?
The impact depends on the app, too. OkCupid has different algorithms than Tinder, and those might punish a particular person less. So switching apps up might work really well for some people.
But it’s also an unfortunate reality that dating apps are less useful than they used to be, largely because the companies are more focused on monetizing them than on providing the best experience possible. If you’ve tried a few apps, a few different approaches on each app, have had people review your profile and so on, and it’s still not working, then you should definitely focus your efforts elsewhere.
It was my goal to arrange an in person date pretty much ASAP assuming there weren't any massive red flags in chat. And, I certainly wasn't drowning in matches with my initial approach either, I absolutely had the time to go on a date with every match I got... Not like anyone was in danger of falling through the cracks. So, I don't think there was any danger that I wouldn't have noticed good matches.
I don't know. Maybe I'm also burying the hook here but I'm NOT college aged anymore. I was in my early 30s when I switched it up. There is a pretty big demographic shift of singles in that age range that makes it less unfavorable for men. Maybe it had nothing to do with my approach and I just coasted to greater success on the prevailing winds and have been wrongly taking credit for it. I dunno.
Without a doubt though, my own relationship with the apps themselves improved significantly when I stopped treating it like a game to win. It's so much easier on your mental state to stop micromanaging your image and just faithfully represent yourself knowing and coming to peace with the fact that a lot of people won't like you. Maybe it was age, but maybe it was just the maturity that came with age. Maybe you can get that maturity without necessarily having the age. I don't know. I don't have enough lives to do a properly controlled experiment.
Dating sucks, though. I don't ever miss being single. My heart goes out to all y'all.