this post was submitted on 28 Oct 2023
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Lefty Memes
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An international (English speaking) socialist Lemmy community free of the "ML" influence of instances like lemmy.ml and lemmygrad. This is a place for undogmatic shitposting and memes from a progressive, anti-capitalist and truly anti-imperialist perspective, regardless of specific ideology.
Serious posts, news, and discussion go in c/Socialism.
If you are new to socialism, you can ask questions and find resources over on c/Socialism101.
Please don't forget to help keep this community clean by reporting rule violations, updooting good contributions and downdooting those of low-quality!
Rules
0. Only post socialist memes
That refers to funny image macros and means that generally videos and screenshots are not allowed. Exceptions include explicitly humorous and short videos, as well as (social media) screenshots depicting a funny situation, joke, or joke picture relating to socialist movements, theory, societal issues, or political opponents. Examples would be the classic case of humorous Tumblr or Twitter posts/threads. (and no, agitprop text does not count as a meme)
1. Socialist Unity in the form of mutual respect and good faith interactions is enforced here
Try to keep an open mind, other schools of thought may offer points of view and analyses you haven't considered yet. Also: This is not a place for the Idealism vs. Materialism or rather Anarchism vs. Marxism debate(s), for that please visit c/AnarchismVsMarxism.
2. Anti-Imperialism means recognizing capitalist states like Russia and China as such,
as well as condemning (their) imperialism, even if it is of the "anti-USA" flavor.
3. No liberalism, (right-wing) revisionism or reactionaries.
That includes so called: Social Democracy, Democratic Socialism, Dengism, Market Socialism, Patriotic Socialism, National Bolshevism, Anarcho-Capitalism etc. . Anti-Socialist people and content have no place here, as well as the variety of "Marxist"-"Leninists" seen on lemmygrad and more specifically GenZedong (actual ML's are welcome as long as they agree to the rules and don't just copy paste/larp about stuff from a hundred years ago).
4. No Bigotry.
The only dangerous minority is the rich.
5. Don't demonize previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
We must constructively learn from their mistakes, while acknowledging their achievements and recognizing when they have strayed away from socialist principles.
(if you are reading the rules to apply for modding this community, mention "Mantic Minotaur" when answering question 2)
6. Don't idolize/glorify previous and current socialist experiments or (leading) individuals.
Notable achievements in all spheres of society were made by various socialist/people's/democratic republics around the world. Mistakes, however, were made as well: bureaucratic castes of parasitic elites - as well as reactionary cults of personality - were established, many things were mismanaged and prejudice and bigotry sometimes replaced internationalism and progressiveness.
7. Absolutely no posts or comments meant to relativize(/apologize for), advocate, promote or defend:
- Racism
- Sexism
- Queerphobia
- Ableism
- Classism
- Rape or assault
- Genocide/ethnic cleansing or (mass) deportations
- Fascism
- (National) chauvinism
- Orientalism
- Colonialism or Imperialism (and their neo- counterparts)
- Zionism
- Religious fundamentalism of any kind
(This is not a definitive list, the spirit of the other rules still counts! Eventual duplicates with other rules are for emphasis.)
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You're not quite grasping the concept.
The entire point of Popper's Paradox is to encourage "Good" people to use the exact same excuses as the "Bad".
The problem with the paradox is that nobody identifies themselves as the bad guy.
You have demonstrated hostility toward me, intolerance of my viewpoint. My philosophy of "tolerance" calls for me to tolerate your speech, up until you actually call for harm against me. Your philosophy of "intolerance for the intolerant" calls for me to suppress you.
Adopting your philosophical model, I should hunt you down and destroy you. Maintaining my own philosophical model, I should endeavor to tolerate your intolerant attitude and behavior.
Shall I maintain my own philosophy? Or shall I adopt yours?
The Nazis were the bad guys. It doesn't matter how they identified themselves. They were still bad - because they didn't tolerate Jews, homosexuals, disabled people or Gypsies.
The Nazis stole their eugenics policies directly from the US. What they called "Lebensraum" our ancestors called "manifest destiny". Their "Rassenschande" was cribbed from our "anti-miscegenation" laws. "Sonderweg" was "American Exceptionalism". Long before they had the Holocaust, we had the Trail of Tears.
The people fighting the Nazis were performing many of the same atrocities as the Nazis. We even had our own concentration camps filled with Japanese civilians, interred simply because we deemed them a potential threat.
We have been the bad guys. We will be the bad guys again. When we were the bad guys, we didn't call ourselves the bad guys, yet we subscribed to a philosophy that would later become the Paradox of Intolerance and committed uncountable atrocities against "the intolerant", who we would later determine to have been the good guys.
If your philosophy leads to atrocity when adopted by your enemy, your philosophy is broken.
I suppose leftists did all of those things.
You're trying to convince me that because Nazis killing Jews is bad, Jews killing Nazis is bad too. That won't work.
No, I am not trying to convince you of anything like that. I am saying that the Nazis were only able to justify their intolerance of the Jews by subscribing to an intolerance paradox.
I am saying that they were following the exact philosophy that you are promoting.
I am saying that they could not justify their actions under a "tolerance" policy
The Nazis could justify their intolerance of Jews with anything they wanted.
Do you think it's ok to punch a Nazi?
That is exactly my point.
You can justify your intolerance of anyone with anything you want. That's what the Paradox of Intolerance lets you do. You don't need any further justification than "I don't think they like me very much.".
I guess we shouldn't let orphans have showers! After all, the Nazis gave people showers, and look what happened.
Dingus.
You're not quite grasping the concept. Bad people always copy good people's excuses, so that's a very lame excuse not to be good. Do you tolerate everything except the intolerant? Great, then I tolerate you.
You trust bad people to realize they are bad?
No.
So, bad people, thinking they are good, are going to be following your philosophy? They are going to be attacking the people they believe to be bad?
Bad people do what they want because they don't care.
You can do better. Try again.
You can do better. Try again.