Controversial - the place to discuss controversial topics

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Controversial - the community to discuss controversial topics.

Challenge others opinions and be challenged on your own.

This is not a safe space nor an echo-chamber, you come here to discuss in a civilized way, no flaming, no insults!

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, "trust me bro" is not a valid argument.

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Hastur

Calls for defederation - Is the idea of the open marketplace of ideas outdated? (self.controversial)

submitted 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago) by Hastur to c/controversial

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Lately I see a lot of calls do have specific instances defederated for a particular subset of reasons:

Don't like their content
Dont like their political leaning
Dont like their free speech approach
General feeling of being offended
I want a safe space!
This instance if hurting vulnerable people

I personally find each and every one of these arguments invalid. Everybody has the right to live in an echo chamber, but mandating it for everyone else is something that goes a bit too far.

Has humanity really developed into a situation where words and thoughts are more hurtful than sticks and stones?

Edit: Original context https://slrpnk.net/post/554148

Controversial topic, feel free to discuss!

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[–] Lovstuhagen_EH -3 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Exploding Heads guy here...

I'd like to say that the Exploding Heads admin, Kapow, is first & foremost anti-censorship. He's going to let anyone post things - there are lines in the sand not to be crossed, but the general belief of Kapow and many of the core contributors is that free speech doesn't hurt anyone.

Kapow is not far right. Many of the EH members are just Libertarians. Another large amount are Trump-type "populist right." Call them fascists, I don't care. It's fine. A rose by any other name... But there aren't any Nazis on Exploding Heads. We banned one just the other day.

The topic here is free speech & the marketplace of ideas and I can tell you that... man changes and grows throughout his life, and that people grow and change more through education, free exchange of ideas, exposure to the truth, than they do through isolation, shame, hatred...

In fact, the quickest way to make an asshole act like an asshole and become incapable of change is to treat him like an asshole.

I think if you are actually pro-peace, you must be pro-liberty, beause you would deny yourself the ability to coerce.

I think if you are actually pro-democracy, you are 100% supportive of free speech, because you would not use coercion and censorship to manufacture consensus and have a stranglehold on society.

I think anyone who believes in any value we can call "progressive" must first believe in the right of the individual to express themselves freely, and they should be secure enough in who they are to allow themselves to be challenged and to be ready to interact in good faith with others.

[–] steakmeoutt 6 points 1 year ago (1 children)

But there aren't any Nazis on Exploding Heads. We banned one just the other day.

That sounds like a contradiction in terms. Unless you banned the only Nazi in existence it stands to reason there are likely to be others.

I think anyone who believes in any value we can call "progressive" must first believe in the right of the individual to express themselves freely, and they should be secure enough in who they are to allow themselves to be challenged and to be ready to interact in good faith with others.

But we know for a fact that fascists do not argue in good faith

[–] Lovstuhagen_EH 2 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That sounds like a contradiction in terms. Unless you banned the only Nazi in existence it stands to reason there are likely to be others.

It's a tiny instance - yes, there has been an influx of new people, but it's still absolutely nothing like it is here. If there are any, they are lurkers.

But we know for a fact that fascists do not argue in good faith

There are those who self-identify as progressives, anti-racists, feminists, anarchists, etc., who also do not argue in good faith and even use these progressive monikers to go as a sheep in wolves clothing...

Point being: you have to argue in good faith, and not worry so much about assessing what other people think or are trying to do.

But if your actual position really is as simplistic as

-> this guy is a Republican -> he's a smooth talking Republican -> he's a secret racist -> he's a cryptofascist -> everything he says is a lie meant to advance his fascist agenda...

It's actually you who is not engaging in good faith with anybody.

[–] steakmeoutt -1 points 1 year ago

How incredibly telling that you leapt from Nazi to American Republican.