this post was submitted on 27 Jun 2023
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Reddit Migration
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### About Community Tracking and helping #redditmigration to Kbin and the Fediverse. Say hello to the decentralized and open future. To see latest reeddit blackout info, see here: https://reddark.untone.uk/
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I really don't get why they're doing this.
Reddit has already showed how much it cares about its users. We've tried going private, we've tried going restricted, we've tried going NSFW, we've tried spamming John Oliver posts, we've tried asking nicely in open letters, and Reddit has consistently given its community the middle finger in every single situation. And now that we've seen the admins change rules, remove mods, ban users, and break privacy laws, the plan is to just do the exact same thing they did before in the hopes that it'll work this time?
If a blackout on the platform was going to get Reddit to change its mind, that would've happened already. The time to induce change was two weeks ago, when the protests had lots of momentum. But it didn't work, and trying to make another stand now is going to be even less effective.
I still think that the best move is to leave Reddit for alternatives like /kbin, Lemmy, and Squabbles. Thankfully, some of the comments on the /r/ModCoord announcement are also saying this. Instead of desperately trying to cling to a platform that doesn't care about you, go somewhere else.
My feeling at this point is that spaz really just wants to check out. He knows, or perhaps has realized now that in the process he's going to kill his platform, but that's not an issue to him. Social networks go in cycles and maybe he saw some hint reddit was in the downturn, or maybe he just wants to take his money now while the value is still there.
Spez definitely has "smartest guy in the room" vibes, you know the type, they think they're the smartest person in any given room, regardless of evidence.
He's openly praised Elon Musk'd cost-cutting measures at Twitter.
Spez genuinely seems to think that everything he does is good and right, and that users will come crawling back, because he thinks that his horrible, broken site is the only option for people to spend their time. It seems to be a combination of arrogance and entitlement.
Everyone else got a sweet IPO cash out during covid, now he wants his millions too
He waited too long. Reddit was probably booming then. He should have ridden that high into an IPO and started the process in mid/late-2020 once WFH started taking off.
IIRC they started trying right when IPOs were hot and couldn't finalize the backing before the bubble popped
And he sold reddit when it had 75000 users.
THEN came back not as owner but CEO.
That's the last stage of #enshittification : You've squeezed your "customers"/products and now you squeeze your 3rd parties in order to generate value for shareholders. That 2nd squeeze was booting 3rd party apps and hamstringing moderators. The value for shareholders is the increased ad views and spez reaps that during the IPO.
I call him that in my head as well!
More like network effect is a motherfucker.
I think something to remember is that some communities on Reddit are essential and important to people's wellbeing. There are subreddits that help people get through cancer, or help people with depression and suicide. I help (as best I can) with a subreddit that helps people with access to what can be life changing and life saving medical cannabis. Reddit, as much as I despise social media and centralisation of power and knowledge can be the sole place some people go for support. Of course it shouldn't be that way, but that doesn't change what it is currently.
Because of this, protests aren't just about shitposts or cat subreddits or whatever that anyone can find somewhere else or restart on the Fediverse. It's also about trying to force Reddit's hand into improving what there is so that the essential subreddits can continue (at least for now until a better alternative is created and folks have finished migrating there such as what r/blind has done).
I was part of a support group for people like me on Reddit. I still made the move. It’s time. I suggest those groups leave instructions on where to go.
So the reason r/bind has already jumped to an alternative is because they are affected the most and the hardest.
The other kind of communities today that you mentioned are less impacted, so they can continue .. for now.
I do hope though that the right groups of people are looking into creating the better alternatives right now. The day may come when reddit decides these subs are too much of a liability - or even just not enough of a money maker - and yanks them. And there's no reason to believe that reddit would give them even as much warning as r/blind had.
Emphasizing not a suggestion to move right away, but make sure these places can start establishing backups so they don't exist solely at the whim of reddit.
This is the really essential point that I think bares repeating. Yes, these communities fill important roles, but that is EXACTLY why we should be pushing them on to other platforms.
They don't need to move entirely, but they should be trying to mirror themselves somewhere else.
Spez may not being going as power mad as Elon yet, but he's definitely looking over there, distracted boyfriend style.
You can find those kinds of helpful places on social media sites like Facebook too. That doesn't mean any of us want to go (back) there. Change, by definition, means that people are affected, but that doesn't mean that it shouldn't happen.
Some people will stay there and become the "Boomers", some will move.
Plus they totally fucked up the messaging with the original blackout. It should have always included information about accessibility being taken away.
Indeed; they forgot to keep it simple.
Most people have no idea what all the API-related jargon means.
Moving a community is hard, so at least some of those mods are likely thinking that moving would destroy the community they worked so hard to manage. Its not like Reddit is going to respect a request to close, so they would end up competing with themselves when Reddit replaces them with compliant mods.
I'm not saying they shouldn't move (they should) but it's definitely a hard road to re-establish elsewhere. Some communities will thrive, but others, well, its possible that their users will just stay put.
What can we do to help them transition?
I think the best thing we can do is what we’re doing now - creating new spaces and communities over on kbin and Lemmy, while the platforms are making improvements. Right now, kbin isn’t really ready for a huge inrush - I love it, but it’s so very unfinished and not intuitive, and there are no third party apps (yes, you can use the website, yes, you can make an icon on your home screen that acts like an app; it is not the same. The mobile site is a mess). People fed up enough to leave Reddit will put up with a lot that most folks won’t. So let’s keep building up what’s being built here, and when people do get ready to leave, there’ll be an established, more polished place for them to come to.
Sites don’t usually die at once; it’s usually steady attrition. That’s what will happen to Reddit if they don’t get themselves sorted.
Absolutely. I do understand continuing the protesting after the first of the month, and I commend the participating moderators for their efforts. However building a new community and leaving Reddit behind is really the only feasible solution that impacts their site in the long run. Eventually those protesting moderators are going to either capitulate, or lose their positions. Reddit is not going to change this. They've dug in.
I've lurked on Reddit since the blackout, but I haven't participated. My comments are deleted and today is the last day I go there to browse (fitting as today is my cake day....RIP 11 years of Reddit). After the first of the month I'm going to see if any of my comments are restored, delete them and/or replace them with gibberish or corny quip, and then delete my account.
Happy Kake day 🍰 Happy Key lime pie day? Happy Klondike Bar day? Happy Kuchen day?
I still need my Reddit account to provide support to folks. But I've been deleting everything non-support related. Thousands of comments over the years. Reading back through some of them, I feel sad at the hours I put into some of the longer ones and the comradery and funnies... end of an era. Here's to a brighter future full of more comradery, interesting discussions and silly fun 🥂
I agree: migrating a community is really challenging. I'm a subreddit moderator myself, and when we were initially discussing this stuff, there was a lot of doubt because of how daunting the task is. Mods from other subs see the challenges as reason to not even try. However, I think it's important that people at least make the attempt given the current state of Reddit.
Something that I think people should keep in mind is that this stuff is gradual and doesn't have to happen all at once, especially since the alternatives aren't fully polished yet. Even just establishing a small, active community outside of Reddit (like people have been doing with all these fediverse communities) is a big win.
Some of the best things we can do right now are
they aren't wrong. It will massively deflate their community. That's an ineivtability of how lurkers on the internet work. They aren't there for community, they are there for easy passive browsing.
"we" as in the common person? It won't be a fast track. There will need to be a steady supply of content for a certain topic, and a stream of discussion. Unfortunately the best way to help as a single person is to basically become that sweaty forever online person. The first step to the Network Effect is to generate enough content to engage with.
If "we" have developers or artists that can be one bigger step to help out. contribute to making apps and extensions to either bridge the gap or overcome current shortcomings of these federated instances. Even amongst techy communities there is a lot of confusion to how instances work. So some app to make it dead simple to browse and comment (while later allowing options for power users) is key. Sync committing to working with Lemmy/KBin is definietly a bit help.
Most of the rest is up to the instance admins. SEO, improving features, getting good moderatiors, etc. None of that is in out control, we can only give feedback
That sounds awesome. How did you find that the first time around?
To be fair, if it wasnt for the blackout it wouldnt have given me the motivation to finally move on to kbin. Im sure this will push others to do the same. If all it takes is to slowly dwindle the reddit user by doing the same thing then im all for it.
Of course, i do see why there shouod be more creative protests to switch things up and see what else works.
Absolutely same here. Because I use Mastodon a lot, I heard about kbin when it first came out, and poked over to look at it, but decided it was a bit too empty and rough around the edges, and stuck with Reddit. Then came the Blackout, and I went ahead and made an account.
As Reddit gets more enshittified and kbin and lemmy get more polished and active, we’ll start seeing a bigger shift.
Me too. I am actually tiring of all these Reddit 'call to arms'. Just leave Reddit already.
Gives Reddit The Company an opportunity to tank their IPO even more.
Still sucks to leave a place you've invested so much time into, plenty of people have a decade worth of lurking, posting, upvoting etc. Not a great situation and I can understand people doing whatever they can to try and get a reasonable resolution
Because this is the last time it'll really matter, so why not?
The API changes start on the 1st. The thing that started all this to begin with. Doing a blackout then puts it into full effect.
I've been going through and deleting my comments and posts as I get time (deleting your account doesn't delete your comments/posts). Once all my comments/posts are deleted, my account will get deleted as well.
this makes it fast: https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite
perfect, thanks!
Is this pretty easy for a slow old fart with limited computer skills to use?
YMMV, but as someone with Memory and Cognitive Impairment, I found it straight forward enough to use. You just need to drag a button to your bookmarks bar and then click it when you're on Reddit. Select what you want to edit and/or delete and go. Take a while to do (at least it did on my 6yo account) so I went off and did other stuff while waiting.
Thanks much! In another thread recently someone suggested that Power Delete Suite would quite working along with the other apps in a couple days, so I better get to it.
I'm currently editing all my comments with Bye Bye Miss American Pie
Seems appropriate.
I get your point, but keeping it in the news and dialog outside of reddit is also good, and that is more likely to happen due to things going on inside of it.
Two reasons the ongoing Reddit protests are important:
the protests keep the pressure on reddit and can lead to ongoing news coverage (which also keeps the pressure on reddit) . Otherwise, reddit will be able to spin the narrative "see? we told you it would just blow over and it did"
kbin, Lemmy, and other alternatives aren't yet at the point where they're ready for millions of redditors. For example, the modCoord post makes the important point that a lot of reddit's moderation functionality isn't accessible ... but almost none of this functionality even exists yet on kbin and Lemmy. So most people aren't going to leave yet.
Don't get me wrong, leaving now is also a good option if you can find what you want elsewhere! But not everybody's there yet.
#reddit #kbin #lemmy
At this point any reddit protests need to sort focus on tarnishing the platforms reputation further. They've made it clear they won't course correct.
Top of mind, spamming the subs with content that looks bad for them to remove. The ideal would be dirt on spez (e.g comments he made on /r/jailbait), but it could even be something more reserved like a charity link or "why I'm leaving" memes.
July 1 is a good excuse to get another news cycle out of this, and warn potential investors skeptical of the future of the company.
I think that a lot of people are holding on to any hope that reddit will go back to "normal" again. They probably don't realize how many of us are just done with it overall. I am out on sheer principle.
At thus point, I don't care if it lives or if it dies. I will not give them any traffic. Joining in these shenanigans is still kind of helping reddit fill the content void. I will not help reddit. I am just done and ready to move on from it already.
Why shouldn't they do it though? As if they had something to lose. I prefer this over just leaving the site and making it easy for Reddit to just instate new Moderators that want to lick ass and chew gum and they're all out of gum.
Don't take this comment as complete disagreement though, I get your point.
I think there is something to lose though. Aside from being a waste of time, it's a waste of user goodwill. We've already seen how momentum for this stuff wanes over time. If you wait too long before starting the migration process, people just won't be interested. Obviously, it's a gradual thing, but many moderators don't seem to have even started trying.
Which do you think is going to be more effective:
Well that's the sad reality. I don't think most people want to move. They are hoping reddit fixes itself or at least compromises on their plans. I was in that same boat myself during the first blackout way back in 2015.
Ofc, I saw over 8 years how they proceeded to do almost none of their promises, implement actual user centric features when the loudest subs literally broke reddit, and threw in a bunch of stuff no one asked for: crappy video player, hiding QoL behind a paywall, polls that barely work on old reddit, adding NFTs over a year after the internet went to war with the concept?
Yeah, I'm a very patient man, but around 2019 I realized not much was going to change. And the coup dtat is that the communities themsselves have gotten more and more polarized over time. I remember a time where I could at least lightly touch into some political issues as long as I stick to smaller subs. During my last days (around the time blocks updated to be much worse) I was being blocked for correcting grammatical errors. Not minor stuff, stuff that would fundamentally change the meaning of their sentence.
So yea, I've given up. But it took me years after my "breaking point" and I'm sure for others they will be in the same boat
Absolutely. Personally, I have been part of Reddit only for a few months, and with the speed of adoption of alternatives you've mentioned, we will be perfectly fine in just a few months from now. By the way, /kbin looks awesome; I like the UI and overall speed.
Mods should all leave en masse. Or stop moderating. Or moderate maliciously, deleting real posts, promoting spam, off-topic, etc. Sabotage at this point. Nothing will change Huffman's mind other than massive site-wide loss of users. And the only way to do that is to tank the quality of reddit. Either by sabotage or a simple lack of good moderators. Reddit simply couldn't find enough mods to keep reddit afloat if all of the ones organizing protests simply stopping working for free. It'd be bedlam overnight. That should be the organized protest.
I think this is a really good analogy for what Reddit is becoming and why most folks are staying there…for now:
Reddit is a Dying Mall