this post was submitted on 22 Oct 2023
459 points (93.9% liked)
Green - An environmentalist community
5234 readers
1 users here now
This is the place to discuss environmentalism, preservation, direct action and anything related to it!
RULES:
1- Remember the human
2- Link posts should come from a reputable source
3- All opinions are allowed but discussion must be in good faith
Related communities:
- /c/collapse
- /c/antreefa
- /c/gardening
- /c/[email protected]
- /c/biology
- /c/criseciv
- /c/eco
- /c/[email protected]
- SLRPNK
Unofficial Chat rooms:
founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS
you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
view the rest of the comments
Sometimes I feel like dae le epic bacon treat defenders have a number of trenches to fall back to, where one dismisses animals' right to life, another dismisses animal cruelty, another dismisses industrial waste and environmental damage, and the one behind that dismisses inefficient energy use and the waste of land and resources. Ultimately, all of it amounts to "don't tell me what to do" with layers of decoration on top.
It's ok if people don't care about animals. No one is going to force you to eat meat. I promise. It's also ok if we don't use all land everywhere as efficiently as possible to grow the maximum amount of calories so that the earth can support the largest number of people possible. We can have a wealth of variety in our diets that include animal products and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that.
Actually, that did happen while I lived with my immediate biological family in my formative years. You don't speak for me. You don't speak for anyone outside of your bubble world.
The planet's getting cooked with escalating feedback loops that are furthered along by animal factory farming while hundreds of millions are already experiencing a slow gnawing mass starvation from terrible land management. The rain forests of Brazil, for example, are being destroyed methodically largely for the sake of more industrialized meat farming and to grow feed for that industrialized meat farming.
Meanwhile, bubble worlders like you keep expecting your meat treats in a timely and convenient matter. And with all that in mind, here you are condescendingly smugposting about the current status quo being "okay."
To say nothing of the fact that we're forced to fund the torture and killing of animals in the form of federal beef subsidies. Or that in some cases institutionalized people (in prisons, asylums, etc.) are, in fact, made to eat meat and may very well be force-fed if they refuse to.
None of that matters if the treatbrain got theirs, thus the "no one is forcing you" condescending tone which is a fucking lie.
And carnists still have the nerve to act like they're the aggrieved party every time they're forced to remember we exist, lol. I can only imagine how they'd act if the positions were reversed and we were winning as hard as they are.
The world would be in better shape, there'd be a lot less pollution and suffering to living beings, and they may not even notice the difference because they wouldn't be as used to shoveling down dae le epic Baconators.
Even for a strawman that's particularly bad.
You haven't apparently emotionally developed past that point in any way that I can notice.
You're a destructively selfish treatbrain that only wants changes that don't directly inconvenience you in ways you can immediately conceive.
You're as ignorant as you are selfish.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/13/meat-greenhouses-gases-food-production-study
These "treats" you keep bringing up, most people call food. If you are against humans eating food, then this is the org for you. https://www.vhemt.org/
Now let's get to the meat of the issue. ALL human food production causes non-zero emissions, yes even the food you eat. Yes even if you grow it yourself. According to the link you provided "meat accounts for ~60% of green house gas emissions from food production." I would say, so what? Humans need to eat food and some food production is going to emit more green house gases then other food. Trying to optimize our diets to reduce our impact on the world at the expense of enjoying that world is something no one actually wants, including you. At the end of the day everyone has to eat food. So you say "But if we just cut meat production, we would reduce the green house gases of food production by 60%!" Well in less then 80years, the population of the earth is projected to be ~11billion. That is ~50% more people and thus 50% more greenhouse gases emitted from food. So now what do you now?
It's 2100ad, and we got rid of meat 80years ago, along with 10,000 years of human culinary culture and animal husbandry, and now we are right back where we started as far as green house gases (though probably worse because fossil fuels are still around). So what have you solved? What did destroying a huge part of the essence of human society accomplish? Hundreds and thousands of cultures were told that because burning coal and natural gas is cheaper and certian people will get rich from continuing to do that, those billions of people can't have certain kinds of food anymore. That's not a deal anyone will take, nor should they.
You've already sunk your own argument with your prior "well I don't want to eat anything but yummy epic le Baconators don't tell me what to dooooooooo" statements. "Most people" is an empty statement where you apply your own destructive selfishness to the majority of humanity, and even if you were right, that's contributing to the ongoing ruination of the planet through both industrialized factory meat production pollution and the consequent massive carbon footprint of it all.
"Inflicting less suffering and death on living beings and reducing pollution and land depletion. And for what? What would all of that solve? That doesn't sound like unlimited meat treats to meeeeee!"
You have a clownishly destructive and selfish take. 🤡
So you have no answer. Cool. Typical.
This thread is full of attempts to answer the problem and you having nothing to say about them except "no, don't do that, government bad, what about my treats."
Again, the implication is that you want the status quo to stay exactly the same and you lack the courage to even own up to that.
The problem is that people are mean to animals? Sorry, I don't see that as a problem at all. Producing food for humans' causes green house gases? Yes. I agree, humans have impact on their environment. We should destroy all human culinary culture and eat only what is the most efficiency use of land? Why?
You are selectively ignoring both me and everyone else here stating over and over again that the environmental damage, pollution, and carbon waste of industrialized meat farming is a massive planet threatening problem. The ignorance is on you.
You're not. Stop doing that smug passive-aggressive Reddit talk.
The planet's becoming desertified for the sake of your meat treats and you don't see a problem? You're destructively ignorant.
So we don't fucking die for the sake of your unfettered treat demands.
How about we get rid of fossil fuels? You dont' need to commute daily by car to your negative worth sales job. Lots of people actually hate their jobs under capitalism but no one says you know what? I actually really hate eating meat but I feel like I'm forced to do it anyway. People enjoy food. It's one of the few joys many have left in our hell society.
Your solution to the environmental damage caused by agriculture is "eat less food." That's not a solution at all! My solution is that amazing experiences that human culture and society can provide us is 35% of the problem so let's address the other 65% because that's the shit that doesn't make life worth living. Shipping consumer electronics 8,000 miles just to throw away within a year doesn't make anyone happy. Spending 2hours a day commuting via car to some shitty office so that you can sell more consumer junk doesn't make anyone happy. These are the things that should be changed. The fact that people eat different food then you should be celebrated. Human culture is awesome and a world where we all eat the same food because it's the most efficient isn't a world worth living in.
Concern trolling argument. Besides, if those fossil fuels were gotten rid of, your meat treats would be staggeringly impacted when it comes to everything from raising to slaughtering to distribution, so you would suffer a loss there anyway.
Again, you're selectively ignoring the very large pollution, land depletion, and carbon footprint of industrialized factory meat farming by conjuring an imaginary hyperbole all-or-nothing situation where nothing can be done unless everything is done. Besides, if I had to choose between those extremes, I'd rather the planet not become uninhabitable. Choosing otherwise if those must be the two extremes is basically death cult thinking, and for what?
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/sep/13/meat-greenhouses-gases-food-production-study
You are choosing to ignore the facts over and over again while pretending you're not getting any arguments of that sort because you have nothing but your petty selfishness to fall back on here.
You are being willfully ignorant for obscenely petty and selfish reasons.
Ahahaha. Being worried about fossil fuels is a "concern troll?" Ok it's obvious now that you care more about virtue signaling against "carnists" and their "treats" as long as you can continue driving your SUV around. The suburbs and your entire car-centric lifestyle is coming to an end, thankfully. Meanwhile I'll enjoy my urban-raised chickens and daily eggs while you complain to the manager of Whole Foods that they are out of imported tofu again.
Yes, it is when you keep stating your concern for that while also saying "fuck you, got mine, unlimited meat treats" as if the only choices were unlimited meat treats or some imaginary dark world of oppression with zero meat treats.
If there were Reddit-O-Meters, they'd be exploding just scanning your post.
Is there a reason you keep posting 4chan images?
You really do have nothing of value to say here, never did, and getting called out on your "totally not mad" reaction against valid criticism of your meat treat fixations looks like it hits its mark.
You're a clown. Do a juggling act or ride your unicycle off stage already. 🤡
More concern trolling is the same clown trick as before. At least try juggling.
How many concern trolling layers can you be on at once? And for what? Criticism of the meat industry?
I hope you someday stop using "u r mentally ill" Reddit-tier putdowns against people that disagree with you.
Speaking of Reddit, that's such a pretentiously pompous way to try to swagger off that you may as well do a cape twirl and tip your fedora. It would line up nicely with your "fuck you, got mine" selfishness and blatant disregard for life.
Have fun trying to stop climate change without reducing meat consumption, not to mention other problems like desertification and soil degradation.
The earth is an ecosystem with a metabolism, and humans take out of it way more than return, and with capitalism that isn't going to change anytime soon.
You can go "sweetie, but meat tastes good!" all you want, not to mention your bizzarre comment on optimizing land usage for population growth. It's not a question of morality - it's a question of not being a fool.
That condescending "it's okay" tone from that self-absorbed status quo championing treatbrain was Reddit-tier grating, too.
Not only that, but we're talking about a country with some of the highest per-capita beef consumption in the world. Beef has an order of magnitude higher impact on emissions as other meats. It's so fucking inefficient it's insane.
I think it's much easier to shift people to more efficient meats than it is to cut meat out entirely.
Easier yes, I suppose.
It's still a half measure that will at best delay the worst effects of climate change (such as many other mainstream proposals to combat it) and there's a difference between how radical the changes to society will be and whether climate change will be bad, very bad, very very bad or lead to Medieval death rates