this post was submitted on 19 Oct 2023
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I think the point that people are trying to make is that Hamas terrorism isn’t representative of all Palestinian people.
I feel as though the focus should be on eradicating and arresting the terrorist cell not bombing the entire neighborhood where they live, civilians and all. Although I understand that an investigation needs to be completed to determine which group actually carried out the hospital bombing and whether it was deliberate.
I do feel as though as a westerner without formal education or study of the matter I’m not qualified to point fingers in the whole thing other than to say that one atrocity does not justify further atrocity.
You say that like it actually means something...
Not kill everyone there as your method of dealing with the situation. It's literally a hostage situation on multiple fronts and Israel is choosing to kill everyone, hostages included.
Blame 'the west'
Okay, fumny.
But for real, what would be a solution?
That's only a question when you conpletely ignore history and pretend that nothing happened before. Terrorist don't jsut pop up randomly. They are created by circumstances.
You shouldn't ask "what's the solution to a terrorist group embedded in a civil population". Your actual question should be "What did we do to create that problem and how could if have been prevented?". Even if you only ask that to not do the same shit again...
And in Israel's case the answer is very easy. They could have worked on peace and independence of Palestinia 30 years ago, like it was planend when the National Autority was created to gradually do that. Instead they spend more than a decade on being happy with the status quo of an occupation they don't even had to pay for as that was covered by international partners... until Hamas got a majority in 2006. Then they could have supported the peaceful government in their fight against Hamas ~15 years ago. Instead they watched cheering for Palestinians fighting other Palestinians... until Hamas controlled Gaza. And then they could have still spend more than a decade of limiting Hamas' influence. Instead it was Israel's government that used Hamas as an excuse to to show the National Authority wasn't speaking for all Palestinians and so they wouldn't need to work with them for any peace.
30 years of bullshit and then asking "what do we do about Hamas?" when the real question is "why did we create Hamas like it is today and why are we still continuing the exact same course?".
Solution? No solution, the only true focus should be blaming other people.
Are the Palestinian people cracking down on Hamas themselves? No, Hamas is operating as their government on the strip.
They(the larger group of people who don't want this) could do something to change that, but they haven't. Of course it wouldn't be a peaceful change, but If your government doesn't represent you, do something about it or you lose your right to complain when it ends up causing you harm. It's not like revolutions are unheard of in history when the populace gets angry enough.
Same for Israel, the government is representing the people. The people could change the dynamic, but they choosing not to, and therefore the consequences are their own.
Life isn't fair. War isn't new. Humans can be very fucking brutal, vengeful, and stupid.
That’s such an overly simplistic solution for a complex issue, though.
Using that logic no despotic regime should ever be in power. But they are and have been and will continue to be.
The Taliban shouldn’t be back in power in Afghanistan, and Russia should just ditch Putin. People just need to read the 2nd amendment and grab their guns, gotcha.
There are a lot of non-despotic regimes that exist now because of rebellions against their former despots.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_revolutions_and_rebellions
It's a long fucking list. It's going to keep getting longer too,
Just because it can be done, doesn't mean it happens immediately. The people have to want it, and I honestly don't think either the Palestinians or the Israelis want to change the situation right now, they're quite content to try to annihilate each other.
If you ask the average person there, of course they'll say the other side shouldn't be hurting them, but they also aren't asking their own side to stop fighting.
Yeah... those bad Palestinians not doing anything against Hamas while they took control of Gaza... oh, wait. That's not what actually happenend.
Was Israel cracking down on Hamas 16 years ago when there were open fights between Hamas and Palestinians fighting against them? Or were they sitting on the sideline gloating and watching Palestinians fighting other Palestinians until Hamas controlled Gaza?
Was Isreal cracking down on Hamas in Gaza in the last decade? Or were they just using Hamas as an excuse to kill civilians and to argue that the National Authority obviously doesn't speak for all Palestinians, so there is no need to talk to them or work for peaceful solution?
Why should it have been Israel's job to stop a civil war that's happening in a non-Israeli controlled territory?
Clearly Hamas has significant support among Palestinians.
"In the poll, 53% of the 1,200 Palestinians surveyed said they believed Hamas is "most deserving of representing and leading the Palestinian people." https://www.npr.org/2023/10/12/1204881032/hamas-israel-attack-palestinians
Palestinians want revenge more than they want peace and so do the Israelis, nothing will change about this situation until both sides choose differently. Sucks for all the people who do want peace, but the people perpetuating this are significant groups of people, not simply fringe elements on each side.
But that's the point: It happened in Israeli-controlled territory. They did nothing for a decade after 1993 while de facto still occupying the areas with no change in sight, then wondered why the National Authority lost support in the population and then still couldn't bring themselved to support that peaceful government cooperating with them over radicals bent on destroying Israel.
That's the level of priority peace actually had for Israel. They created Hamas support in the first place by a decade of governing the status quo when the plan should have been to gradually work for more autonomy for Palestinians and peaceful co-existence, then they indirectly supported Hamas by using them for even more excuses to not move on with the planned peace process and now they pretend they have no other choice but killing Palestinians to root out Hamas. When in reality they had a lot of choices for 30 years. And chose the route of escalation every single time.
Israel doesn't really claim Gaza as their own territory. Other countries say they're responsible, but they don't even try to operate there.
Like I said earlier, both groups are happy to keep trying to exterminate each other. Palestinians are not innocent civilians, and neither are the Israelis. They have majority support for the fighting to continue.
@BlameThePeacock
Just curious, is this what you think about civilians in North Korea as well? That it's their own fault?
North Korea is a whole different problem due to the incredible level of isolation, brainwashing, and direct support from two world power dictatorships. They're effectively a penal colony being used as a buffer to keep the West away from having a land border with China/Russia. It will fall to a revolution at some point, but it's going to be a military coup or Chinese/Russian action, rather than from the people. If there was any ability to smuggle arms into the country, it likely would have already fallen.
Palestinians have access to anything they need to overthrow Hamas including information, communications, and weapons, there are already groups internally fighting against them. Hamas has significant (if not majority) support though, and not because Hamas has been brainwashing or forcing them.