this post was submitted on 12 Oct 2023
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It's kinda fun watching liberals realize that Bolsheviks aren't leftists
it's rad when a political position built on a lot of background knowledge is dismissed by people who lack that knowledge and have lived their whole lives in the global capital of anticommunist propaganda
Former CIA Agent John Stockwell Talks about How the CIA Worked in Vietnam and Elsewhere
It's not that we're uninformed, it's that we disagree.
a lot of you are uninformed. You don't know what you don't know. I've fucking seen it firsthand. And it's not surprising, because a lot of these topics are fucking arduous to learn about, you don't just pick it up ambiently by browsing reddit and watching the news.
And a lot of you pretend that you know more than you know, pretend that others don't know anything, and that a video of this one guy from 40 years ago paints a complete and accurate picture of what's going on today. And have the balls to talk down to everyone else.
Like the other commenter said, it's more that we disagree than that we are clueless. Just look at the comments section on that video and the way people who eat the video up handle that information about today. It's reminiscent of conspiracy theory group think.
Also weird that you only focus on the US about the horrible things it has done. I can think of other governments--including my own--that have done and continue to do horrible things today. It's not the gotcha moment you all think it is.
I post one thing, you think it's the only thing I can post?
Up your game, then
a million Iraqis died on a lie in your lifetime. The bombings and sanctions after the Nayirah testimony killed another million people in the 90s. The Jessica Lynch abduction hoax was widely publicized, I'm sure you've heard of that one, Lynch herself came out against it. Fictitious witness accounts of a genocide in Libya led to a NATO bombing campaign that obliterated a once-prosperous country and there are now open-air slave markets in Libya. A large number of North Korean defector testimonies have fallen apart under scrutiny, as reported by the Guardian.
this is all stuff that's been in the news, that you've probably heard of.
I'm really not excited to go further in a thread where people upvote something like this in response to my earlier comment:
Each and every one of those examples has been perpetuated by different people, save for the ones we can group by former Pres. GWB--an infamously known liar--for personal and/or political gain, and you can't possibly claim that they're all connected to a single entity in the US.
Regardless, everything you've said is quite off the mark. For example, the abduction of Jessica Lynch was real but it was falsely reported initially as a PR stunt to raise troop morale. The the NATO bombing campaign is also part of misinformation circulation online meant to shake trust in NATO that largely exaggerates its collateral damage. The open-air slave markets in Lybia are a result of the overthrow of the dictator Gaddafi and many years of instability in the area, and not as a direct & immediate action by NATO, which is even more disinformation. The false testimonies given by N. Korean defectors are a result of various factors including the defectors falling prey to influences like cash incentives and public pressure that aren't necessarily tied to a concerted intervention.
Like I said, up your game. And now I'm asking you to cite your sources and to stop hiding behind the convenient excuse of not wanting to spend too much time on this. Because if you're giving the time to type something up, you have time to look it up as well.
The only impression you're giving me is that you're on some weird tirade to denigrate the US with your own brand of propaganda and misinformation. And, I repeat, I say this as a non-US citizen and because it's so obvious. The only source you've given is ridden with conspiracy theory group-think. What other sources do you have?
this is why I was hesitant to list more examples, because I knew I might get a five-seconds-on-google shotgun response like this and then I would have to write an arduous reply with a lot more effort than you put in, and in the time it takes me to write that reply people see a few paragraphs with links and assume you wrote a slam dunk.
fuck it, I'm posting this now and then editing in more stuff as I go
for starters, your scary-looking "misinformation circulation online" link is talking about death figures due to the bombing. That's not the fucking point, the point is the removal of Qaddafi and the ensuing power vacuum and political breakdown in Libya. You get there in your next sentence, where you act like you're correcting me (and misspell Libya), but then take all the blame off NATO with a vague wave of the hand. Who do you think overthrew Qaddafi? Who armed and supported the rebels? Who bombed his fucking motorcade?
https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna44234613
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/covert-teams-from-nato-members-provided-critical-assistance-to-libyan-rebels/
(warning, Atlantic Council link)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/france-sent-arms-to-libyan-rebels/2011/06/29/AGcBxkqH_story.html
Surprise, it was the fine countries of NATO!
I wonder what sort of motives NATO countries had to intervene in Libya?
https://www.foia.state.gov/Search/results.aspx?searchText=C05779612&beginDate=&endDate=&publishedBeginDate=&publishedEndDate=&caseNumber=
Shit, it was oil and imperialism!
And what about the public reasons for the intervention?
https://www.salon.com/2016/09/16/u-k-parliament-report-details-how-natos-2011-war-in-libya-was-based-on-lies/
Well shit, this all sounds a lot like Iraq. Why do we keep falling for the same bullshit over and over and over again?
First of all get out of here with your angsty corrections of anybody's misspellings like it matters. English is not my first language and I take shortcuts to remember spellings. That's some playground shit and I expect you to act like an adult.
Second, limit your arrogance, which is also part of my original point. If I started arguing something about any of my fields of study and you seem less versed, that doesn't give me the right to berate you for it.
Third, stick to the point. If you want to argue specifics about each of those events that's fine and I'm taking the time to follow up. But keep in mind my original argument: that you are willing to exaggerate and misrepresent your points in order to undermine the West while turning a blind eye on other countries and interests that you favor while at the same time being arrogant about it.
what if I acted like I was well-versed and scoffed at your opinions about a subject you knew more than me about?
it's not arrogance, it's frustration. That's also why I pointed out the misspelling, to point out that you don't know about this topic and yet you are confident in your opinions about it.
Libya is not an English word, it's a country name β but that said, I didn't consider that your language might use a totally different script, e.g., in Chinese, Libya is ε©ζ―δΊ
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Loyal Citizens of PyongYang in Seoul (37:58)
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Next comment: Jessica Lynch. Probably my last one for the night. Separate because there's no room in the last comment.
I'll post this now then edit things in, so you know I'm still writing and don't go "oh you conveniently ignored my other shit!"
I'm waiting.