this post was submitted on 19 Sep 2023
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Tolerating intolerance (i.imgur.com)
submitted 11 months ago by [email protected] to c/[email protected]
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[–] [email protected] -2 points 11 months ago (3 children)

anyone telling you to defend nazi's isnt a lib.

You'd think that'd be obvious and you wouldnt have to be told that, yet here we are, having to tell you the blatant fuckin obvious.

[–] mindbleach 1 points 11 months ago

Who exactly do you think it is, then? Is every high-minded suburbanite misquoting Voltaire secretly a Nazi? Or d'ya think, just maybe, this comic is about a real thing?

[–] [email protected] 0 points 11 months ago (1 children)

The problem is it's not a simplistic line. I strongly disagree with the nazi viewpoint. They also break the social contract so often they've voided all rights to be covered by it. At the same time, some people want to take it too far. There are still later lines we shouldn't cross. (E.g. A mob beating Nazis with baseball bats is never acceptable).

Unfortunately, Nazis like playing games, and trying to mess with the scale of problems. Some people try and step in and "help" without realising that they are dealing with untrustworthy information. This can tie people's minds into an impressive knot, just as they intended.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago) (3 children)

(E.g. A mob beating Nazis with baseball bats is never acceptable).

real heavy "Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me." vibes from this.

Endgame for fascists, nazis, authoritarians, etc is violence. Violence against you, me, and anyone else they declare "undesirable"

The only way to defeat them is violence. To protect a civil society and a way of life that allows humanity to blossom in all its various shades and shapes.

You hide behind betters, pretending to have a moral highground because you didnt get the blood on your hands, while benefiting from the blood on everyone elses.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 11 months ago* (last edited 11 months ago)

I don't think it's so much violence itself but the threat of violence. Nazis and fascists need to know that if they get violent, we'll return it a hundredfold in kind.

It's kind of like the phrase that a sheathed sword is sometimes enough to keep the peace. The threat of it being used is what keeps people in line. What we need are more visible sheathed swords -- unless of course we need to draw the weapon.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 11 months ago (1 children)

I never said I'm not willing to get blood on my hands. Violence can be required. It's an unfortunate sign though that we have already failed badly. However, if violence is required, it should be controlled, and focused. A mob beating with fists is spontaneous, a mob using baseball bats is a lynching.

The difference between a mob and a militia is in the organisation and responsibilities. A militia has a chain of command, and so someone who can stop things going too far. They can also make sure the actual job is done, rather than straying into mindless violence.

If violence is required, we are morally required to apply it. However, we are also morally required to apply it precisely in controlled amounts, towards the required goal. Otherwise we can easily degenerate into the exact thing we claim to fight.

The other thing to remember is that we can be baited. Mindless violence might feel good, but if it doesn't advance the cause, it's worthless. Even worse, it can justify the actions of the other side, even if the balance is still disproportionate.