this post was submitted on 31 Aug 2023
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chapotraphouse
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Yes it is a real concern. And honestly, I think leftists are terrible at giving dating advice, especially when it comes to men. There are some considerate leftists that actually give concrete advice (like start exercising, find clothes that fit better, maybe trim the beard so it looks nice, get a good haircut or shave it completely if balding, try to look people in the eye instead of looking down all the time, learn small talk, learn banter, learn how to express romantic interest, find that difference between confident and creepy and know when you've crossed it, etc.) Most of the "advice" I see is just "don't be a r!pist!" and "don't harass women!" Like bro that's obvious, but to the guy that's constantly getting rejected, especially when apps like Tinder make it so the a few super good looking guys pretty much clean house (and this dynamic absolutely spills over into offline interactions), there needs to be better advice.
When this advice is lacking, or people dismiss these young men because "there are so many other problems why would I care about MEN!", this can lead to alienated young men finding their way into reactionary spaces. In this case a little prevention is worth ten tons of cure.
And lastly, I'll say this, it's completely disingenuous to remain "friends" with someone after you've been friendzoned if you initially had romantic feelings for them and those romantic feelings still persist. Unless your feelings magically also changed to platonic ones, then there's a relational imbalance that will always linger. It's better to just say "hey I like you in a more romantic way and even though you want to be friends, perhaps it's better that we don't hang out."
I agree with most of what you said, but I really don't see why you couldn't be friends with someone you had/have feelings for. You can keep stuff to yourself, and be okay with being friends. Obviously the crusher has to accept that going further isn't going to happen. You can logically know something, and behave accordingly, even if your feelings are different.
I think that may sound good in theory, but in practice emotions really fuck with us. So if one is trying to assess how to best proceed, there needs to be an honest accounting on the strength and frequency of these feelings. It's almost like a calculated risk to be honest. You need to really know yourself. If you think you can do it then yeah good for you, but I think in our current environment it might just create more danger to the women because they may not know who is honestly trying to be friends and who is "just trying to get in" under the guise of friendship. Maybe this analogy isn't that good, but it's almost like job hunting, if you get rejected I suppose you can try to "follow up and keep trying" but it's better to move on (and I fully acknowledge that dating isn't transactional like a job but it still kind of is a "market" for lack of a better term).
I agree, it is difficult. And if the crushee didn't want to keep being friends, I could understand that. I'm also not saying people should feel like they have to be friends if they don't want to be, for whatever reason.
I think asking for a promotion would be a better analogy. You obviously (I say obviously but from what I've heard...) shouldn't keep asking for a date or a job interview. But remaining friends isn't nagging for a job interview. It's hoping things can stay the same. I've not gotten promoted before, but I don't think it'd be better to just quit. (as long as I can be okay in my current place).
Actually that reminds me of something slightly related. It always seems like back in the day guys would ask a girl out like ten times before she finally said yes. I always hear stories from older couples like "he asked me out 20 times before I said yes and we've been happily married for 60 years!" But nowadays persistence is seen as being creepy in dating, although it's kind of still promoted in sales, business, etc.
If Pride and Prejudice, written in the 1800s, has anything to say about it, women back then found that pushy and obnoxious and sometimes gave into it but it wasn't seen as a desirable method. Mr. Collins does that to Ms. Bennet and one of the most famous speeches in the book is her reply criticizing that "normal" approach.
https://www.sparknotes.com/lit/pride/full-text/chapter-19/