this post was submitted on 18 Aug 2023
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[–] [email protected] 9 points 1 year ago (2 children)

Only the person pulling the lever is responsible for his/her action though. There is a difference between passively passing on and actively murder someone

[–] [email protected] 14 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Dentological ethics: you have a duty to not murder people, so you don't pull the lever

Utilitarian ethics: pulling the lever will kill less people

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In this case it isn't even a guarantee that anyone has to die as the problem is presented, the tram can just continue to be passed along. The default setting for the lever is "go to next" so to not pull the lever is easier both physically and morally.

The individual that pulls the lever is the same individual that would take action to harm others for no benefit, and even in real life I can't morally take responsibility for a person who runs over a child by purpose after I let his/her car merge in front of me just before a school crossing

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago (3 children)

If I hand a machete to Jason Voorhees I think I'm at least partly responsible for the people he hits with it. I know what he's going to do with that thing.

[–] [email protected] 4 points 1 year ago (1 children)

Except you're not passing a machete to Jason Voorhees. That would be "double it and pass it to the next person who you know is going to pull the lever."

You're passing a machete to the next person in line. You don't know who that is. They may or may not pass the machete down the line. Considering I would not expect a person chosen at random to kill someone when handed a machete, it seems unethical for me to kill someone with a machete just to prevent handing it to someone else.

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago (1 children)

I know Jason is somewhere down that line I'm handing the machete off to. And the farther down the line he is the more people he's going to kill.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 1 year ago (1 children)

There are only 33 people in the line though.

Either you get to 33 and there are no more and the track just ends or it’s “nuke the planet” or dont for everyone else above 33.

[–] [email protected] 2 points 1 year ago

Or it keeps doubling even well after its surpassed the human population, and we all have to keep hitting "pass" in turns forever, and if even a single person gives up then boom.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

In this case you don't hand him a machete, instead you murder someone innocent to prevent possible murders in the future by a third party

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago

I guess it comes down to the weight you give the word "possible" in your sentence. If possible means extremely likely (and there are logical reasons to believe so) then taking responsibility makes sense.

[–] [email protected] 1 points 1 year ago (1 children)

That's only if he's next in line though. If you pass a machete to someone who might one day eventually pass it onto him, is that as bad? I suppose at some point there's an ethical cutoff lol

[–] [email protected] 3 points 1 year ago

The farther away he is the worse it is because the more people he gets to kill. If for some reason I absolutely had to pass the machete down the line then the best case is for the very next person I hand it to to be Jason. But even better if it's me.