this post was submitted on 09 Aug 2023
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Mechanics make very good money with ups because of the union. This specific negotiation was for part time workers and drivers, negotiating higher base pay for all part timers and drivers, AC in drivers trucks, and better benefits.
The contract for mechanics and pilots will largely remain the same because again, these are some of the more lucrative jobs at ups.
The union ceases to exist without the companies that have unionized. What you are saying is antithetical to the idea and nature of a union.
The CEO of ups made $19 million last year. I think they can afford to pay her less and their actual workers more.
Yes that's correct.
That's because THEY'RE THE CEO. Skilled workers make more money than unskilled workers because they provide more value. That's not wrong.
The CEO could not do what a package handler or driver does. That is also a fact.
Unskilled jobs still NEED to be done. They are NOT OPTIONAL. That is also a fact.
Do you believe that unskilled laborers do not deserve to be paid a living wage? Do you happen to know what the living wage in your nearest major city is? I ask because that's where all of the ups part timers work. They are not able to live in low income towns and rural areas because that's not where the hubs are.
"Unskilled" always seems like a slur - there's a fair amount of skill that goes into loading trucks properly and efficiently, same as any job.
I absolutely agree, there's skill in almost any job. But that's a whole other argument I didn't want to get into with this dude.
Tbh I imagine an actually unskilled job is being the CEO of a large corporation
Of-fucking-course they could. Any able-bodied person can. That's what unskilled labor means.
Do you believe that unskilled laborers deserve to be paid $19M/year?
Of course not, because "living wage" isn't a real number, it's just a concept. Whatever it is, you could double or even triple it with what these workers are being paid.
...so you think small towns don't get packages? This is the argument you want to go with?
I think the idea is more that the CEO is not really worth 19m a year. A pay gap makes sense, but it has ballooned to ridiculous levels
And yet the separation between rich and poor has grown exponentially over the past few decades. I don't understand how this position is defensible. Fairness is needed not the continued exploitation of those not lucky enough to fall into wealth. And that's all it is with millionaires, gambling, exploiting and a little luck. Every single one of them.
Is a CEO 1000x more skilled than an engineer?
The amount of skill is not important. What's important is the value they bring to the company. If they didn't bring $19M in value, rest assured they would absolutely not be paid $19M. There is no law requiring these businesses to pay their CEOs absurd amounts of money.
In what way exactly ? Now I ask you:
What if the head of the company, who hired someone to hire someone to hire a staff full of engineers, was hit by a bus tomorrow, could a a random bystander successfully hire someone to hire someone to hire some engineers? Maybe someone will argue that there is deep expertise involved in knowing how to know who to hire, but data doesn't really support that conclusion, and I think the much more credible argument is that most anyone can become a half-reasonable HR hack in a few days of reading sample interview scripts and LinkedIn articles. The added value seems pretty low.
Now, what if the brilliant, innovating engineers were hit by a bus instead? Could the business still exist then? Could a randomly chosen bystander take their place? Not so easy to answer this one without recourse to the specifics of the business.
And what if the "unskilled workers" that runs the company business hit by the bus as well ? Could anything be produced ? Could the engineers find people with enough practical skilled to implement their ideas ? Same goes as for the engineers.
Considering this, is it normal that essential elements of a business are not paid a fair share for the actual value they bring through their work ?
(btw, have you noticed you’re on a socialism community ? ‘Cause most people will argue against you here)
My mind is being blown right now by this statement.
Why do you think they pay these people so much money? Do you think they just have too much of it and don't know what to do with it? So they just start giving it away to random people on their staff? If a less-qualified person could do the same job just as well for significantly less money, why wouldn't they just hire that person? Or give the current person a massive cut in pay? Do you think all of these these insanely profitable businesses are just unanimously too stupid to understand basic business concepts?
I'm fully aware. Unlike some people I don't sequester myself to circle-jerk communities.
Can't tell if bot or just raging asshole.