this post was submitted on 07 Aug 2023
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Antiwork
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A community for those who want to end work, are curious about ending work, want to get the most out of a work-free life, want more information on anti-work ideas and want personal help with their own jobs/work-related struggles.
The new place for c/[email protected]
This server is no longer working, and we had to move.
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Subscribers: 2.1k
Date Created: June 21, 2023
Library copied from reddit:
The Anti-Work Library 📚
Essential Reads
Start here! These are probably the most talked-about essays on the topic.
- The Abolition of Work by Bob Black (1985) | listen
- On the Phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs by David Graeber (2013) | listen
- In Praise of Idleness by Bertrand Russell (1932) | listen
c/Antiwork Rules
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The main rules of the server will be enforced stringently. https://lemmy.world/
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Off topic comments that do not pertain to the post at hand may be removed if it is deemed they contribute nothing and/or foster hostility at users. This mostly applies to political and religious debate, but can be applied to other things at the mod’s discretion.
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Post must have Antiwork/Work Reform explicitly involved in some capacity. This can be talking about antiwork, work reform, laws, and ext.
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It is impossible to list every example or variation of the rules. It is also impossible to word everything perfectly. Players are expected to understand the intent of the rules and not attempt to "toe the line" or use loopholes to get around the intent of the rule.
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Yes.
So what if, suppose, that farm owner had some neighbors that weren't fortunate enough to own a farm for whatever reason, let's say they were migrants from a less plentiful place, and decided it would be good for them and himself if he paid them so they wouldn't starve to help him out on his farm. An open market for labor you might say. Would he still be able to sell that produce how he sees fit?
Yes. A person should make the value from their labor.
But he's making value from someone else's labor, that they traded freely to him in voluntarily in a market for labor.
No. If he's still working beside them (like you said in your example), then his labor is making the value. He is entitled to that value.
It's impossible to "make" value from someone else's labor. The person doing the labor created the value.
Your example also isn't them voluntarily working for him. You said in your example that it was either work for him or starve.
If he's not and he's sitting doing nothing - creating no value - then he gets nothing.
Every single living thing on earth labors under threat of starvation. That's not a shortcoming of any particular economic system, that's a shortcoming of nature, if you can even call it a shortcoming.
He profits from the labor of others. Does he deserve what he gets for it? It's mutually beneficial mind you.
There are 100% people that live under capitalism and don't work, but don't ever have to worry about starving.
There are people who get unfairly given more profit than they work for.
There are people who unfairly get less of the profits than they deserve.
I'm saying it should be fairly distributed by the workers. You're pretending it isn't an issue.
I'm explicitly saying he should not profit from the others labor. I'm explicitly saying they should be fairly compensated for their labor.
See now you're just avoiding continuing with this line of reasoning because you see where it's headed and it's not good for your ideology. I'm doing a thought experiment here, demonstrating that free markets are in fact incompatible with communist ideas, fundamentally because people cannot be free to sell their own labor on their own terms.
What the hell are you talking about? I went along with your "thought experiment." I answered your question.
I didn't avoid a single thing. Did I miss something you asked? Ask again if I did.