this post was submitted on 29 Nov 2024
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[–] [email protected] 12 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (5 children)

Is this another term for trans women, or something different?

Edit: thanks for everyone who's educated me, this is really interesting!

[–] [email protected] 21 points 3 weeks ago* (last edited 3 weeks ago) (1 children)

In western trans culture, most trans women would consider being called a "ladyboy" or "shemale" an overly sexualized insult. It's primarily used when referring to sex workers, not to someones identity. It's similar to calling a random woman who has children a MILF. So don't refer to someone as this unless that is a label they apply to themselves first.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to truly make definitive statements about how the term is used in Thailand, but from what I understand it's a rough/poor translation from "Kathoey" which is used for anyone outside of traditional gender roles meaning a more direct/correct translation would be non-binary or queer.

On a related note, Femmeboy is a term used in the west, but that is specifically referring to a younger man/boy who is effeminate. It is specifically saying they are not trans, so could be anything from a femme gay boy to someone who enjoys crossdressing.

[–] [email protected] -2 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

maybe "androgynous" would be a better direct translation but what do i know

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Kathoey are definitely not androgynous. They are explicitly living as women would, and present very feminine as shown. To varying degrees of success in passing, but it isn't an issue. Nobody tells them they can't be kathoey. They just are.

There is a lesser known opposite, Tom. As in, Tomboy. These are afab who essentially live as men. Less so than kathoey, I will say, presumably because society isn't as ready for afab to play male roles. But they will wear short hair, dress masculine, and usually have relationships with with cis-women, known as "Dee (for "good (girl)" 🫤). When was there more than a decade ago at the start of social media really taking off, there was a high-society generational trend of cis-girls dating tomboys in their late teens, as a way to be safe from pregnancy/abuse while still being the cool girl who dates on Insta. You imagine this to be pretty sad at times for Toms who get abandoned as soon as said ciswomen are more stable in life.

[–] [email protected] 18 points 3 weeks ago (1 children)

Not really, although it can be used as such, usually by folks who don’t really know what they’re talking about.

Gender identity in Thailand is complicated

[–] [email protected] 4 points 3 weeks ago

Freaking fascinating.

[–] [email protected] 5 points 3 weeks ago

Cross dressers rather than trans, from my understanding.